The Weather Outlook

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White Meadows
14 December 2021 23:48:50
Goes to show this high pressure cell is going to be one tough b**tard to shift. But when it does, could either be dull as dishwater or something special
BJBlake
14 December 2021 23:53:58

Goes to show this high pressure cell is going to be one tough b**tard to shift. But when it does, could either be dull as dishwater or something special

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

Yes - agreed. If it engages with the continent and drags in some drier air, it might avoid the strato-cumulus gloom sufficient to bring in clear skies, we might get some freezing fog  and a winter wonderland of hoar frost. 


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
BJBlake
15 December 2021 00:02:23

Just 8 perts bring in serious cold. That’s down to 25%. At least one of them is the Op. 


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
Gandalf The White
15 December 2021 00:17:11

 

For comparison, here's the GFS 18z at T+240 (6 hours later); quite similar.

 


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Gandalf The White
15 December 2021 01:00:27

Just 8 perts bring in serious cold. That’s down to 25%. At least one of them is the Op. 

Originally Posted by: BJBlake 

If the threshold is -8c at 850hPa then I make it 12 out of 32. A few more get to -6c, so 50%.
 
Against that, very few bring in mild conditions; the balance are just around average.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



marco 79
15 December 2021 05:02:46
00z Op opting for a potential Snowy Christmas week...Now that would be something special..
Home : Mid Leicestershire ...135m ASL
Taylor1740
15 December 2021 06:10:25
Suddenly the block doesn't look so strong on the 0z and it looked like the Atlantic was going to break through in time for Christmas, only for it to undercut just enough to give an Easterly. But I am not liking the trends at the moment.
NW Leeds - 150m amsl
Heavy Weather 2013
15 December 2021 06:33:41

Suddenly the block doesn't look so strong on the 0z and it looked like the Atlantic was going to break through in time for Christmas, only for it to undercut just enough to give an Easterly. But I am not liking the trends at the moment.

Originally Posted by: Taylor1740 

Buts that’s the thing. You need the block In place which we will do, you then need it to move. This is a high risk and high reward game. 

The only trend I am seeing is a block which may or may not retrogress. No signs of an Atlantic onslaught. I have seen charts at this time of year a billions times worse.


Mark

Beckton, E London

Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.

SJV
15 December 2021 06:36:01

Yep, HW, we've got charts like this at Day 6 from ECM... not a lot to be concerned about really!

Gandalf The White
15 December 2021 06:37:42

Suddenly the block doesn't look so strong on the 0z and it looked like the Atlantic was going to break through in time for Christmas, only for it to undercut just enough to give an Easterly. But I am not liking the trends at the moment.

Originally Posted by: Taylor1740 

Indeed. Looking at the control and mean, the GFS ensemble has shifted markedly in the 00z, away from a sustained upper ridge. 

So far ECM looks OK out to T+168 but subtle changes look to reduce the odds on the colder air advecting west.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Taylor1740
15 December 2021 06:41:24

 

Indeed. Looking at the control and mean, the GFS ensemble has shifted markedly in the 00z, away from a sustained upper ridge. 

So far ECM looks OK out to T+168 but subtle changes look to reduce the odds on the colder air advecting west.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Yes and the opp a cold outlier on GFS, feels like it will be game over very soon on this..


NW Leeds - 150m amsl
Gandalf The White
15 December 2021 06:42:54

 

Buts that’s the thing. You need the block In place which we will do, you then need it to move. This is a high risk and high reward game. 

The only trend I am seeing is a block which may or may not retrogress. No signs of an Atlantic onslaught. I have seen charts at this time of year a billions times worse.

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 

Have a look at the GFS ensemble suite; definitely a shift in the probability of cold weather.  Of course it’s just one run but the trend is becoming clear. The trend can switch back but currently what we’re seeing is what the Met Office has been seeing - the block getting squeezed out by a renewed burst of the jet stream 


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Heavy Weather 2013
15 December 2021 06:43:30

 

Indeed. Looking at the control and mean, the GFS ensemble has shifted markedly in the 00z, away from a sustained upper ridge. 

So far ECM looks OK out to T+168 but subtle changes look to reduce the odds on the colder air advecting west.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

To be fair to you and to Taylor when I made my earlier comment I hadn’t seen the pressure charts. It does at this stage look like we will be losing the influence of the high and thus we are playing with fire. The 0z GFS shows how it can work in our favour, but it’s fine margins and as we all know, fine margins never often go our way.


Mark

Beckton, E London

Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.

Brian Gaze
15 December 2021 06:55:24

Don't be fooled by the op run this morning. There has been a notable shift in the GEFS with more runs bringing wetter and milder conditions. I suspect this fits in better with the ECMENS 00z mean from yesterday that left me a tad puzzled. 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Gandalf The White
15 December 2021 06:58:22

 

To be fair to you and to Taylor when I made my earlier comment I hadn’t seen the pressure charts. It does at this stage look like we will be losing the influence of the high and thus we are playing with fire. The 0z GFS shows how it can work in our favour, but it’s fine margins and as we all know, fine margins never often go our way.

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 

Thanks.  

ECM underlines the problem: although better than the GFS mean, it’s still pushing the LP further east and on a slightly more northerly path. There’s cold air ahead but it’s marginal. Maybe a brief snowy transition? 


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



nsrobins
15 December 2021 07:05:15
Definitely a case of the OP hiding the truth this morning. A shift towards the high, which looked so robust for so long, collapsing away. But, typhoons and mountain torque aside, let’s see how this plays out as I think this has a way to run yet.
Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Gandalf The White
15 December 2021 07:13:03

Definitely a case of the OP hiding the truth this morning. A shift towards the high, which looked so robust for so long, collapsing away. But, typhoons and mountain torque aside, let’s see how this plays out as I think this has a way to run yet.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

Yes, that’s about it.  The GFS op shows how it could still play out whereas GEM op, ECM op and the GFS ensemble mean show the change in emphasis/odds.  It’s a familiar question: have the models misinterpreted the new signals?  As you say, it’s far from resolved at the moment.

To use the cliché: more runs needed.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



doctormog
15 December 2021 07:14:25
Perhaps it’s just me who thinks the ECM 00z 240hr chart is not showing the High collapsing. I’m not sure there’s much of a change to the overall theme this morning - anticyclonic in the realistic timescale, after that (just before then after Christmas) less certain.
Whether Idle
15 December 2021 07:32:04

Perhaps it’s just me who thinks the ECM 00z 240hr chart is not showing the High collapsing. I’m not sure there’s much of a change to the overall theme this morning - anticyclonic in the realistic timescale, after that (just before then after Christmas) less certain.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Yup, A definite improvement this morning IMHO for cold prospects but the wait for the weekend 120/144 charts continues, as FI is clearly in the 120 range so all to be played for.  My only advice to festive model watchers is have No Expectations, then whatever transpires you wont be disappointed.  

 

 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
doctormog
15 December 2021 07:41:30

 

Yup, A definite improvement this morning IMHO for cold prospects but the wait for the weekend 120/144 charts continues, as FI is clearly in the 120 range so all to be played for.  My only advice to festive model watchers is have No Expectations, then whatever transpires you wont be disappointed.  

 

 

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

Absolutely! Although that is probably also some of the best advice for every winter in the UK. 


MStewart
15 December 2021 07:44:17

Perhaps it’s just me who thinks the ECM 00z 240hr chart is not showing the High collapsing. I’m not sure there’s much of a change to the overall theme this morning - anticyclonic in the realistic timescale, after that (just before then after Christmas) less certain.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

I’ve been watching the ensemble’s for days too and I’m now seeing modifications rather than a collapse of the high.

The latest ECM op backs this up, but still a single run of a model. the gefs ensembles are progressing in the right direction for a colder spell though. Maybe some precipitation after Christmas could be on the cards too ❄️


Mark

Twickenham

12m ASL

Whiteout
15 December 2021 07:57:11

 

I’ve been watching the ensemble’s for days too and I’m now seeing modifications rather than a collapse of the high.

The latest ECM op backs this up, but still a single run of a model. the gefs ensembles are progressing in the right direction for a colder spell though. Maybe some precipitation after Christmas could be on the cards too ❄️

Originally Posted by: MStewart 

The ECM mean seems to agree with you both, looking a bit slidy to me post this though - high risk / high reward. 


Home/Work - Dartmoor

240m/785 ft asl

Narnia
15 December 2021 07:58:37

At least what we can see is that it should be pretty dry and settled for the next five or six days which is a bonus for this time of year. The rainfall chance seems to have increased on the GEFS this morning after the 23rd, but with limited runs showing cold at the moment I can’t see that magical white Christmas appearing. 

Brian Gaze
15 December 2021 08:06:31

Definitely an exciting 48 hours coming up. The change in the GEFS is better shown in the data tables today.

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/premium/gefs-tables.aspx

 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Gusty
15 December 2021 08:11:09

CMA runs to 21/22nd December with high pressure dominance, thereafter we diverge.

Its definitely a case of the models sniffing energy in the atlantic threatening what originally looked like a high pressure dominated Christmas. The 240 mean is worthless as the range of options on the table for the big day is significant.

It 'feels' to me that we are moving into slider territory. The question is can we advect some cold air off the continent first before the battle commences.

Lots to keep an eye on and enjoy.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 

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