As a well-over-60-year-old, I have no objection to the principle of being kept safe, but if this involves being confined to my own house for however many years I have left, then the miserable existence implied by the cure is worse than the disease. I would have no hesitation in breaking a time-unlimited lockdown even if it meant a fine every time I went out. As it is, I put my faith in social distancing and I'm fairly happy to adjust my lifestyle to incorporate that e.g. avoid public transport and go shopping onlyat quiet times. I'm sure that others of my age would feel the same.

It's reminiscent of the treatment of menatl health where "lock 'em up and throw away the key" was recognised in the second half of the 19th century as inhumane and replaced with medical treatment. Roll on vaccination.

I agree this is by far and away the best way forward while an effective vaccine seems a long way off. Not all of the more mature members of society are idiots and quite a lot still hope they have a few years left in them.

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If Spain is underreporting deaths like the UK and the true figure is closer to 50000 the mortality rate is close to 2%. The spread is similar to my back of fag packet calculation the other day. Remember British experts were suggesting a mortality rate of 0.20 to 0.50% early on because of a huge number of unreported cases. The WHO investigation into Wuhan said that was NOT the case but we seemed to dismiss their work. 

The more data we have, the more accurate the fag packet calculation is likely to be simply because we can average out all the anomalies. The remaining uncertainty IMO is whether we are looking at 2% of people infected or 2% of people who show symptoms. Mass testing is the only way to resolve that one.

 

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Took the plunge yesterday and ordered a hair trimmers from Amazon (50 quid inc post costs) only to find out that I have to wait until at least the first week of July for it to arrive. By that time, my whole look will have changed from the present scruffy 70s chic to all out Monkees. All I need now is the big red flares and big collared, tight fitting flowery shirts. Also have some more work to do on my New York pimpesque walking style, but I'm getting there.  

Some delivery dates are quite distant on Amazon. I’ve been looking at face masks and some were also July.

You could always buy elsewhere and cancel the Amazon order. I don’t know if John Lewis ships to your area but they have cheaper ones.

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While few will share his view, we should be considering all angles and there are some parts of Four’s post that shouldn’t be shrugged off as ridiculous.  I agree that the evidence doesn’t stack up.  Not necessarily to do with cases in power centres, but why this virus attacks some and not others.  What is it that makes some more susceptible than others? 

I disagree quite strongly there. Every part of Four's post is highly questionable.

Where the hell does anyone get the idea that covid-19 targets western centres of power when the stats show that it preferentially kills people in the BAME community?

I'd love to know where he gets such statements from. I hope they are copied and pasted because if he makes them up himself, I fear he may be hitching up a bit more than he can tow.

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Some delivery dates are quite distant on Amazon. I’ve been looking at face masks and some were also July.

UK meds have face masks in. Surgical:

https://www.ukmeds.co.uk/surgical-face-masks

FFP2

https://www.ukmeds.co.uk/hygiene-face-mask-ffp2-n95

 

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This is absolutely right. I would not condone my parents or my mother-in-law being locked away for months on end. That would be utterly appalling and anybody advocating such a thing would be suffering an empathy problem. We have to come up with better solutions than simply ‘shield the elderly’.

Agree with both of you. Most of the oldies here are keeping their distance and following the rules - but many of us go out for exercise walks and shopping too, often in pairs from a single household. What do you expect us to do when we see friends and neighbours - walk on by in silence?  Nobody does - we stop for chat at a distance.  Any government that thinks this is not taking place is deluded. We don't invite them in for a cuppa or get close.

When the clapping stops tonight we will hear multiple conversations across the lanes and gardens.

In contrast I know of friends desperate about relatives who are seriously ill in care homes who they can't visit, or other with special needs children, climbing the walls because they would like to be back at school. In both cases PPE is an issue for staff and visitors.

Roger

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Some delivery dates are quite distant on Amazon. I’ve been looking at face masks and some were also July.

You could always buy elsewhere and cancel the Amazon order. I don’t know if John Lewis ships to your area but they have cheaper ones.

Check out eBay, much earlier delivery dates for masks and plenty of choice.

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I disagree quite strongly there. Every part of Four's post is highly questionable.

Where the hell does anyone get the idea that covid-19 targets western centres of power when the stats show that it preferentially kills people in the BAME community?

I'd love to know where he gets such statements from. I hope they are copied and pasted because if he makes them up himself, I fear he may be hitching up a bit more than he can tow.

 But when this started people were saying it will be carnage in poor African countries. Is it? 

 

As a well-over-60-year-old, I have no objection to the principle of being kept safe, but if this involves being confined to my own house for however many years I have left, then the miserable existence implied by the cure is worse than the disease. I would have no hesitation in breaking a time-unlimited lockdown even if it meant a fine every time I went out. As it is, I put my faith in social distancing and I'm fairly happy to adjust my lifestyle to incorporate that e.g. avoid public transport and go shopping onlyat quiet times. I'm sure that others of my age would feel the same.

It's reminiscent of the treatment of menatl health where "lock 'em up and throw away the key" was recognised in the second half of the 19th century as inhumane and replaced with medical treatment. Roll on vaccination.

  Absolutely agree!  

I’m 65 and don’t consider myself elderly and I’m fit and healthy with no known underlying problems, overweight by a couple of Kg since lockdown - must walk further!  I work and have no intention of packing up so I’ll contribute to the economy and pay taxes towards the NHS for as long as I can.  Why would anyone want to lock me up?  That was rhetorical, so no need for rude answers!  

Seriously, if under 65’s are at such lower risk, then I’m no threat to them and I’d gladly take my own chances with freedom, otherwise my life is as good as over!  Don’t bother putting me on a ventilator if I get it, then I won’t be draining NHS resources, just as I’ve never drained them before, other than with childbirth.  If I get it, just let me go, don’t make me recover so I can later die a slow death with Alzheimer’s or Dementia.  What’s the point of existing in your front room until your 90?

Time to let the oldies out methinks!  

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  Absolutely agree!  

I’m 65 and don’t consider myself elderly and I’m fit and healthy with no known underlying problems, overweight by a couple of Kg since lockdown - must walk further!  I work and have no intention of packing up so I’ll contribute to the economy and pay taxes towards the NHS for as long as I can.  Why would anyone want to lock me up?  That was rhetorical, so no need for rude answers!  

Seriously, if under 65’s are at such lower risk, then I’m no threat to them and I’d gladly take my own chances with freedom, otherwise my life is as good as over!  Don’t bother putting me on a ventilator if I get it, then I won’t be draining NHS resources, just as I’ve never drained them before, other than with childbirth.  If I get it, just let me go, don’t make me recover so I can later die a slow death with Alzheimer’s or Dementia.  What’s the point of existing in your front room until your 90?

Time to let the oldies out methinks!  

I think it goes back to what we have discussed before. The system is geared up to measure success by number of years lived because it is a "hard" number. Quality of life which should take precedence is a lot more subjective.

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Some delivery dates are quite distant on Amazon. I’ve been looking at face masks and some were also July.

You could always buy elsewhere and cancel the Amazon order. I don’t know if John Lewis ships to your area but they have cheaper ones.

Indeed, this would have been the smart thing to do. The buy from Amazon was spurred on by an impulse driven by desperation. Got up yesterday morning and my hair frightened me. Looked like I was battling with live electric cables all night whilst I slept. I just thought there and then that enough is enough. 

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 But when this started people were saying it will be carnage in poor African countries. Is it? 

In countries with almost non-existent healthcare and very young populations, I would expect the overall effect of the pandemic to be very small because the vulnerable groups don't exist to the same extent that they do in wealthy countries.

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I disagree quite strongly there. Every part of Four's post is highly questionable.

Where the hell does anyone get the idea that covid-19 targets western centres of power when the stats show that it preferentially kills people in the BAME community?

I'd love to know where he gets such statements from. I hope they are copied and pasted because if he makes them up himself, I fear he may be hitching up a bit more than he can tow.

Did you miss read my post? 

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Did you miss read my post? 

I don't think so but, if I did, I apologise.

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Check out eBay, much earlier delivery dates for masks and plenty of choice.

Or make your own masks.  The guidelines only say ‘face covering’, which could be a scarf!

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I think it goes back to what we have discussed before. The system is geared up to measure success by number of years lived because it is a "hard" number. Quality of life which should take precedence is a lot more subjective.

  Then they should try asking the over sixty fives what they think and they’ll perhaps understand the meaning of ‘living’!  This is why care homes are full of people sitting in Shackleton chairs staring into space!  None of us want that and when it’s too late, our loved ones understandably won’t let go!  If a virus gets me and takes its toll, I and they, will be spared that!  

Of course I don’t want to die yet. I have a lot of living still to do.  The emphasis being on ‘living’.

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I don't think so but, if I did, I apologise.

No need for apologies!  You actually answered by saying Four’s post was questionable.  I was pointing out that nothing should go unquestioned, no matter how ridiculous it seems on the surface.  We should explore every angle if we’re to find answers. 

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  Then they should try asking the over sixty fives what they think and they’ll perhaps understand the meaning of ‘living’!  This is why care homes are full of people sitting in Shackleton chairs staring into space!  None of us want that and when it’s too late, our loved ones understandably won’t let go!  If a virus gets me and takes its toll, I and they, will be spared that!  

Of course I don’t want to die yet. I have a lot of living still to do.  The emphasis being on ‘living’.

As Freddie said.....

 

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Or make your own masks.  The guidelines only say ‘face covering’, which could be a scarf!

I saw someone who lives a few minutes' away from me wearing a scarf just the other week while out walking their dog.

Speaking as someone who is a "shielded" person at the moment owing to an underlying health issue, I am out very little anyway and when I take a walk it is only a couple of times a week. However, if/when I di go out, I think I may adopt the scarf idea.

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Excellent news about antibody testing being approved. The sooner the tests begin the better. Two key things:

1) How many people have been infected in the UK

2) How long does immunity last.

And can immune people still act as hosts and carry the virus?

 

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