This is no different to many other European countries. Italian care home fatalities are probably worse than the UK.

 

So that makes it ok then? A few other countries are as shitty as us

I'll inscribe that on the graves of the dead

The new NHS contact tracing app won't work on older phones or Huawei mobiles

The app is limited to phones with Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) and also running either Apple iOS 11 upwards or Android 8 upwards

https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/uk-news/new-nhsx-contact-trace-app-wont-work-on-huawei/

 

So that makes it ok then? A few other countries are as shitty as us

I'll inscribe that on the graves of the dead

 

If you want it to be less bad then perhaps stop pushing your inate right to go to the pub so voraciously. The governments advice today is basically use common sense. The main reason this is not going to work is because people don't have common sense.

In an alternative universe where you ran the show, how bad would things have got?

 

This is no different to many other European countries. Italian care home fatalities are probably worse than the UK.

 

Got a source for this?

 

So that makes it ok then? A few other countries are as shitty as us

I'll inscribe that on the graves of the dead

 

Beast - you were the one who wanted to keep the pubs open from the outset, so I don't think you have any basis for criticism.

The statistician on Marr was interesting yesterday morning - he stated that international comparisons for like countries is completely pointless - the real issue is that we did not do as well as Germany, not that we have been in the same league as Italy, France and Spain.

The new NHS contact tracing app won't work on older phones or Huawei mobiles

The app is limited to phones with Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) and also running either Apple iOS 11 upwards or Android 8 upwards

https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/uk-news/new-nhsx-contact-trace-app-wont-work-on-huawei/

"Move along, nothing to see here" 

 

The fact it was not overwhelmed speaks to the sucess of the government policy at the time. Spain and Italy were overwhelmed. And I do consider their healthcare superior to ours.

Was Italy overwhelmed or was it just Lombardy, or part of Lombardy, ie Bergamo? Lombardy was the part of Europe which got hit first and worked as a warning to everywhere else so other places had time to adapt.

I believe that Madrid also was hit earlier than we were too which is where we saw people lying on the floor, it was not the whole of Spain which was overwhelmed.

Not seen anyone say this but i think that in the UK we have been very lucky. London is a city where there are always lots of businesspeople and tourists from around the world walking around, going out to bars etc and my local tube is absolutely rammed with people for over an hour in the morning. As i have mentioned before, on my normal trip into work there may be over 10 people within 2 metres of me for 10-20 minutes. Instead of Lombardy getting hit first it could easily have been the whole of London.

I know that everyone will start shouting about different methods of gathering stats but FWIW a comparison of different urban areas in the tweet below.

We’ve also added lots of new data for the worst-hit cities and regions in the world

• We now have high-quality weekly data for Manaus and other Brazilian cities
• We’ve added Istanbul, the epicentre of Turkey’s outbreak
• Fresh data in Jakarta shows thousands of excess deaths pic.twitter.com/aBJnLm4mqR

— John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch) May 6, 2020

 

Beast - you were the one who wanted to keep the pubs open from the outset, so I don't think you have any basis for criticism.

The statistician on Marr was interesting yesterday morning - he stated that international comparisons for like countries is completely pointless - the real issue is that we did not do as well as Germany, not that we have been in the same league as Italy, France and Spain.

 

True, but like Brexit, I changed my mind on the lockdown. We should have closed our borders immediately as you say 

 

Got a source for this?

Being the most charitable I possibly can be, compare the excess deaths in Italy/UK with official death counts. Italy has an undercount 2-3x as high as the UK with complete data in the UK being several weeks ahead of Italy.

If you want to know more about the specific situation in Italian care homes: here is one source of many

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-silent-coronavirus-covid19-massacre-in-italy-milan-lombardy-nursing-care-homes-elderly/

The small-minded Tory-boys squealing in defence of the indefensible fuck-up like soon to be slaughtered runts on here this morning has been amusing.

Sycophancy levels off the scale.

 

True, but like Brexit, I changed my mind on the lockdown. We should have closed our borders immediately as you say 

You literally changed your mind after the government had already implemented the lockdown.

If what you say is true, then had you been running things the outcome would have been far worse.

 

Being the most charitable I possibly can be, compare the excess deaths in Italy/UK with official death counts. Italy has an undercount 2-3x as high as the UK with complete data in the UK being several weeks ahead of Italy.

If you want to know more about the specific situation in Italian care homes: here is one source of many

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-silent-coronavirus-covid19-massacre-in-italy-milan-lombardy-nursing-care-homes-elderly/

 

So doesn't really back up your claim.

 

So doesn't really back up your claim.

As I say you can get an estimate of the Italian undercount by comparing to excess deaths. The undercount is far worse than the UK.

 

 

 had you been running things the outcome would have been far worse.

 

No doubt!, but we could still have draught lager

Sycophancy levels off the scale.

"Sycophancy" - obsequious behaviour towards someone important in order to gain advantage.

So it does not apply, since it is impossible to be obsequious towards people you don't actually know.

What you are actually complaining about is some trying to defend the Government from attacks from those ideologically opposed to it. That is not sycophancy, it is an attempt to provide some balance.

Not looked at the stats but eyeballing this suggests excess deaths in England are the highest. 

(Scroll down for country scores. England hits 43.55 followed by Spain at 34.59.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

 

You've managed to contradict yourself, as far as I can judge.

If the simple message seven weeks ago needed clarification surely it was blindingly obvious that a more nuanced message would need even more clarification?

Look, I've been involved in similar exercises in the corporate world.  You plan carefully, you test the messages, you ensure that you have answers to the inevitable "What about this...?" and "Why that?".  You provide the additional information simultaneously and you have people available to answer the questions and provide background as necessary.  It is not rocket science.

Did you actually read my post.

In summary, it seems we question question question even the bleeding obvious. The stay at home, protect the nhs, save lives. How many questions did that attract and for how long. It went on for weeks. Simple instructions but within there there was a lot of detail to sort out.

This is not the corporate world, this is Joe Public where 10% would never get it, they don't get it now.

Not looked at the stats but eyeballing this suggests UK excess deaths are the highest. 

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

 

The z score might not be the best way to measure this, but still this map doesn't look pretty, with England the worst affected nation of Europe. Wasting our 2-week advantage/hindsight from Italy makes this even worse.