The Weather Outlook

Remove ads from site

Gooner
27 December 2018 13:05:34

 

 

Good stuff John (and a belated Merry Christmas!)

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Agreed

Excellent post 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



picturesareme
27 December 2018 13:09:01

 

I mentioned this a couple months back.. this forum should be renamed 'Model output (mainly gfs) discussion *date*'..

It's the only one people only take notice of in here.

 

6 January and gfs has low pressure slap bang over UK and awful weather..

same time ecm has high pressure over lower Scandinavia with a low over Italy and easterly winds just clipping South East England but with the real cold heading into France and towards Spain.... wouldn't take much direction north or west to bring some deep cold to England. 

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 

.

Guess which one is talked about on here? 

picturesareme
27 December 2018 14:40:27

so why is it nobody wants to talk about this?

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage 

A run not without support either.

The control is actually on the milder side come the 6th..

 

http://projects.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php?run=00

some faraway beach
27 December 2018 14:41:52

As Mr Murr points out, owing to the smaller number of vertical levels in the GFS model we won't be seeing any long-range effects of a SSW descending from the strat to the surface in either the GFS operational run or its ensemble until after it's already shown up in the ECM output. 

I found a paper by some Chileans who compared the accuracy of the ECM, the GFS and the WRF at three different levels in the Andes (140 m, 2635 m and 5104 m):

Results for the three sites show that the lowest correlation and the highest errors occur at the surface. E C M W F model presents the best results at these levels for the two hours analyzed. This could be due to the fact that the E C M W F model has 91 vertical levels , compared to the 64 and 27 vertical levels of G F S and W R F models, respectively. Therefore, it can represent better the processes in the Planetary Boundary Layer (PBL). In relation to the middle and upper troposphere, the three models show good agreement.

http://www.astroscu.unam.mx/rmaa/RMxAC..41/PDF/RMxAC..41_lcortes.pdf

As it happens, ECM now has 137 vertical levels, while GFS still has only 64 (when they increased the horizontal resolution, they left the vertical resolution alone, so in the current situation it's not become more accurate - just more precisely wrong).

So, it is possible that the relatively exciting ECM op run we saw this morning is indeed the trendsetter, and we'll be waiting a while for the GFS to catch up.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.

Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.

Gooner
27 December 2018 15:04:55

so why is it nobody wants to talk about this?

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage 

A run not without support either.

The control is actually on the milder side come the 6th..

 

http://projects.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php?run=00

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 

ECM was discussed this morning by several members ………..and I bet its discussed again this evening


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



doctormog
27 December 2018 15:18:02

The 12z Icon continues with the theme of the previous runs

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/icon/run/iconnh-0-114.png?27-12


nsrobins
27 December 2018 15:30:30

D

The 12z Icon continues with the theme of the previous runs

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/icon/run/iconnh-0-114.png?27-12

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

And then unfortunately let’s itself down and becomes all GFSish from 144. Quite a switch actually from the 06Z deterministic. 

An early (Jan 5th-10th) response to the reversal looking less likely with each run of the NWP solutions now although I won’t dismiss the idea until the Sat am suite. A more protracted (mid Jan) response may be favoured.

This is of course if there’s a response anyway!

 


Neil

Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)

Stormchaser, Member TORRO

Gooner
27 December 2018 15:48:11

D

And then unfortunately let’s itself down and becomes all GFSish from 144. Quite a switch actually from the 06Z deterministic. 

An early (Jan 5th-10th) response to the reversal looking less likely with each run of the NWP solutions now although I won’t dismiss the idea until the Sat am suite. A more protracted (mid Jan) response may be favoured.

This is of course if there’s a response anyway!

 

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

Icon looks as though it can ridge Northwards thereafter 

My gut feeling is there wont be anything to favour the UK , its sods law , an awful lot of talk from November about improved prospects , don't be surprised if we just get a NWly Jan and Feb

Nothing scientific , just a feeling


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Gooner
27 December 2018 15:56:53

Decent 120 from the UK

Modele UKMO - Carte prévisions


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Gooner
27 December 2018 16:03:13

UK 144

HP settles over the UK , before being dragged off into a huge Scandi high ( wishful thinking )

Modele UKMO - Carte prévisions

GFS at 144


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Gooner
27 December 2018 16:27:02

Awful at 180 though


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



ballamar
27 December 2018 16:31:35

 

Awful at 180 though

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

 

small steps earlier - think GFS still overdoing Atlantic

Gavin D
27 December 2018 16:35:05

GFS v UKMO at t144

gfs-1-144.thumb.png.38f0b6e53c9acc0f64061439d6e33831.pngUW144-7.thumb.GIF.d1e8d04dc5679d9aa68e4321e9b2c63b.GIF

Steve Murr
27 December 2018 16:44:17

A slight tinge of disapointment from the UKMO / ICON today, still a cold plunge on the UKMO however not quite as widespread as early ( more of a graze which was highlighted yesterday )

Plenty of opportunity there in the UKMO though-


GFS still way east so some 10c upper air difference between the 2...

πŸŽ„

Rob K
27 December 2018 16:47:11

 

 

small steps earlier - think GFS still overdoing Atlantic

Originally Posted by: ballamar 

GFS makes perfect sense to me as the vortex is being squeezed over the UK by the warming on the opposite side of the Arctic. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." β€” Jerome K. Jerome

Brian Gaze
27 December 2018 16:50:26

 

Personally I think the current data paints a poor picture for cold weather fans. It looks like the high pressure is going to build northwards for a time but the cold air will remain to our east or possibly briefly flirt with eastern England. In the longer term we burn up at least a week or two of mid winter as the high pressure sinks southeastwards. Having said that I would offer a 10% chance of a long fetch easterly become established in the short to medium term, so you could argue that is better than in many winters.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Nothing I've seen so far this evening makes me change this.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Phil G
27 December 2018 16:52:42
At odds with ECM but GFS has been bullish for a very windy spell next weekend, and a very strong jet.

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24015.gif 

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2402.gif 

Karl Guille
27 December 2018 16:55:00

GFS 12z circa 4th January has the cold pool at least 1,000 miles further west (over the Balkans) than on the 6z so by my calculations a similar correction on the 18z and 0z should just about do it!!  


St. Sampson

Guernsey

David M Porter
27 December 2018 16:56:51

 

Nothing I've seen so far this evening makes me change this.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I think that rather like last winter, a lot may depend upon whereabouts in the country one happens to be. If the FI section of the GFS 12z op were to play out as indicated, I wouldn't rule out the chances of some snowfall to low levels in some areas towards the north-west. In fact, it looks to be a bit like the set-up we had for a time in mid-January 2018 which led to 5-6 consecutive days of snow here at some point in the day, thus producing the most snow in this aread outside of what we got from the Beast at the end of February.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

doctormog
27 December 2018 17:04:35
I think that 10% would be a bit generous in terms of probability of a cold long fetch easterly based on current and recent output. Transient NWly or cyclonic conditions look more probable with a chance of colder air plunging down from the north or northeast. That is all quite a way down the line though and cooler anticyclonic flow at the change of year looks about it for the moment.

This could all of course change and probably will from run to run to some extent at least.


JACKO4EVER
27 December 2018 17:17:28
Poor output today if it’s cold your after- a small chance of a cool snap if you can call it that then resumption of the mild fest. At this rate half of winter will have gone with barely a frost.
ballamar
27 December 2018 17:17:56

 

GFS makes perfect sense to me as the vortex is being squeezed over the UK by the warming on the opposite side of the Arctic. 

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

agree the vortex looks to be displaced but personally think it will be further west with blocking forcing this

Shropshire
27 December 2018 17:44:00

Another progressive GFS - certainly nothing to suggest that the AO/NAO will be going negative into January.

 


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
Gooner
27 December 2018 18:00:11

 

Nothing I've seen so far this evening makes me change this.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I wouldn't disagree , people cant hope on something that hasn't happened 

 

I don't see anything severe or very cold  in the next 3 - 4 weeks at least


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus

Banbury

North Oxfordshire

378 feet A S L



Remove ads from site