The Weather Outlook

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doctormog
24 December 2018 06:35:14
The warmth is there, will it now be followed by the zonal wind reversal?

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2018122400/gfsnh-10-6.png?0 


24 December 2018 08:08:50

The warmth is there, will it now be followed by the zonal wind reversal?

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2018122400/gfsnh-10-6.png?0

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

ECM still says yes. A huge shift in the zonal winds coming up if the output is to be believed.

Here are the actual conditions at 12z yesterday. Key area to focus on is 60-90N between 1hPa and 30hPa (top right hand quadrant). Yesterday there was a very strong positive zonal flow in this area which is not unusual for the time of year

http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/figs/ecmwf1/ecmwfzm_u_a12.gif

By day 10 a complete flip to a fairly strong negative zonal flow indicated by the blue colours.

http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/figs/ecmwf1/ecmwfzm_u_f240.gif

Latest GFS parallel run suggest the polar vortex in the stratosphere will not split. It had been forecasting a split consistently for some days. By the end of the run the vortex has regained its circular shape, albeit it is still displaced with the centre on the Norwegian coast. Ideally you want a split to get the maximum impact from the SSW. 

David M Porter
24 December 2018 09:48:47

Whether there is ultimately a split in the vortex or not, it looks as though this is another pretty notable SSW.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

moomin75
24 December 2018 09:50:21

Whether there is ultimately a split in the vortex or not, it looks as though this is another pretty notable SSW.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

Hopefully it will lead us into another red hot summer.


Witney, Oxfordshire

100m ASL

Retron
24 December 2018 10:42:30

Here is the GFS forecast for zonal winds which also shows a strong reversal

Day 10 http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/SSW/gif_files/lat_pres_gfs_UGRD_NH_f240.png

Day 16 http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/SSW/gif_files/lat_pres_gfs_UGRD_NH_f384.png

Originally Posted by: Global Warming 

The first one shows a reversal (albeit a weak one at the all-important 60N/10hPa), but it doesn't last - by your day 16 chart the 10/60 winds are positive again. Still, better to have a weak, shortish reversal than none at all!


Leysdown, north Kent
Chunky Pea
24 December 2018 10:43:28

If you look at winds at 50hPa, not much variation on a day by day basis throughout the GFS run:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=2&model=gfs&var=39&time=234&run=6&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=3

 

I am really beginning to wonder if sudden stratospheric warming events are really all that they are cracked up to be. 

 

 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Bugglesgate
24 December 2018 10:56:39

I   see the spike in warming  has peaked.

http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/clisys/STRAT/

 

Excuse my ignorance, but how does the amplitude peak compare  to past events.


Chris (It,its)

Between Newbury and Basingstoke

"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"

24 December 2018 11:11:09

 

The first one shows a reversal (albeit a weak one at the all-important 60N/10hPa), but it doesn't last - by your day 16 chart the 10/60 winds are positive again. Still, better to have a weak, shortish reversal than none at all!

Originally Posted by: Retron 

That's because its just updated to today's run! When I posted it the figures were still from the run on 23 Dec. Quite a big change on the latest output.

doctormog
24 December 2018 11:21:19

I   see the spike in warming  has peaked.

http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/clisys/STRAT/

 

Excuse my ignorance, but how does the amplitude peak compare  to past events.

Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 

It has/will have reached its peak today, beating in mind the warming is not directly over the pole http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2018122406/gfsnh-10-6.png?6 

On a related but diametrically opposed point, I wonder if there is a nacreous cloud risk today given the notable cold in the stratosphere in our part of the world?


johncs2016
24 December 2018 11:22:52

Hopefully it will lead us into another red hot summer.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 

If that was to happen, I would be very concerned about the resulting lack of rainfall and possible water shortages which could arise from that, especially since there are still a number of locations which could really do with getting some rain right now because of what has already happened during this year, and which are still not getting that rain.

 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.

24 December 2018 11:22:58

I   see the spike in warming  has peaked.

http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/clisys/STRAT/

 

Excuse my ignorance, but how does the amplitude peak compare  to past events.

Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 

That spike had nothing to do with the SSW as the SSW had not started at that point. The SSW has not peaked, even at the 1hPa level and in fact has only just started impacting the 10hPa level.

See this chart. Third box down (blue line) is the 10hPa line which is starting to move up now and is forecast to peak shortly.

http://www.geo.fu-berlin.de/en/met/ag/strat/produkte/winterdiagnostics/index.html

doctormog
24 December 2018 11:24:43

 

That spike had nothing to do with the SSW as the SSW had not started at that point. The SSW has not peaked, even at the 1hPa level and in fact has only just started impacting the 10hPa level.

See this chart. Third box down (blue line) is the 10hPa line which is starting to move up now and is forecast to peak shortly.

http://www.geo.fu-berlin.de/en/met/ag/strat/produkte/winterdiagnostics/index.html

Originally Posted by: Global Warming 

This URL should go directly to the image http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/ts.php?plot=temps&alert=1&lng=eng 


24 December 2018 11:30:07

I would be interested too. A split vortex that acts as the gateway for cold air to flood southwards is all well and good but if that residual lobe of PV persists to our due north or somewhere over the north west Atlantic then its always going to be a struggle to get the block in the correct place for our part of the northern hemisphere. Late December 2001 had a major SSW...after a cold start to the new year high pressure settled into Europe and resided there for the remainder of the winter. A very mild Jan and Feb 2002 for us resulted.

Back to the here and now there are tentative signs of retrogression of the high pressure cell and a trough digging into Scandinavia circa 3rd January ish. It will be interesting to see how that looks when I come back on New Years Day ! 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

Copied across from the MO thread

Given the nature of the definition of a SSW you cannot pinpoint it to a specific location, as it focuses on temperature and zonal wind speed latitudinally across the globe. You could identify the location where the warming started but that is entirely different to how the SSW is defined. So it is important to be clear on that point.

What we can do is look at how the polar vortex responds to the SSW in terms of its geographical location. The site linked below does that really well using interactive graphics for all SSW events between 1979 and 2013. You need to be patient as the graphics at each link take some time to load. A quick look at some of the years where we had cold weather in the UK following a SSW, it is not unusual for the PV to be displaced towards Europe initially in these situations.

http://birner.atmos.colostate.edu/ssw.html

Chunky Pea
24 December 2018 11:55:41

 

It has/will have reached its peak today, beating in mind the warming is not directly over the pole http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfsp/runs/2018122406/gfsnh-10-6.png?6 

 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Does it need to be directly over the pole to have an influence? Would the warming over Siberia not have an equal amount of influence, if such an influence is to be have? 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Solar Cycles
24 December 2018 12:27:39

There’s still uncertainty iin whether we see a split or displacement the ECM going for the latter whislt the GFS the former which it sees it quickly reform over Greenland thereafter. Personally I think we’ll see a week or so in which we’ll see its effects work in our favour thereafter I foresee a west based -NAO as the main core of height anomalies transfers more over to the Canadian side of the globe.

Bertwhistle
24 December 2018 22:38:28

https://www.earth-syst-sci-data.net/9/63/2017/essd-9-63-2017.pdf

Worth a read- page 60 something and if you know your UK data for the years listed, you'll be able to do some correlating...or not.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.

Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.

jhall
25 December 2018 09:46:05

https://www.earth-syst-sci-data.net/9/63/2017/essd-9-63-2017.pdf

Worth a read- page 60 something and if you know your UK data for the years listed, you'll be able to do some correlating...or not.

Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 

Yes, I started a new thread a few weeks ago with a post containing a link to this paper, but it didn't seem to attract much notice.


Cranleigh, Surrey
Gavin D
25 December 2018 09:50:57

Bugglesgate
25 December 2018 09:54:24

 

That spike had nothing to do with the SSW as the SSW had not started at that point. The SSW has not peaked, even at the 1hPa level and in fact has only just started impacting the 10hPa level.

See this chart. Third box down (blue line) is the 10hPa line which is starting to move up now and is forecast to peak shortly.

http://www.geo.fu-berlin.de/en/met/ag/strat/produkte/winterdiagnostics/index.html

Originally Posted by: Global Warming 

 

Thanks for that


Chris (It,its)

Between Newbury and Basingstoke

"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"

Steve Murr
25 December 2018 12:22:46

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

 

I have monitored the SSW on the ECM pretty much all the way through & -7 M/S is now the lowest ive seen in terms of the zonal wind -

Its only a matter of time before the blocking comes...

Gavin D
27 December 2018 13:08:43

Gavin D
27 December 2018 13:27:28

doctormog
27 December 2018 13:38:03
Silly memes aside from people who should know better (Liam) it is an interesting observation re. the correlation between a negative AO (NAM) at 150hPa and the impact on a major SSW on the troposphere. It’s certainly, like things in meteorology, complicated and multifactorial.
Devonian
27 December 2018 13:51:48

Silly memes aside from people who should know better (Liam) it is an interesting observation re. the correlation between a negative AO (NAM) at 150hPa and the impact on a major SSW on the troposphere. It’s certainly, like things in meteorology, complicated and multifactorial.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

I don't know if this has been posted but I happened across  this  RMS meeting report.

The section on SSW begins at about 20 minutes into part two of the report.

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