The Weather Outlook

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Rob K
05 July 2018 19:08:22

I think it's time to stick the (barbecue) fork in this spell. The writing is on the wall now with even the ECM calling an end to the settled stuff. After Tuesday the 850s look like retreating back into single figures for much of the country now. As ever, as soon as the media start to get on board, the models flip.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Hungry Tiger
05 July 2018 19:11:51

Still looks good.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/UKMOPEU12_144_1.png

I have seen one or two crap runs. Lets hope they don't verify.

 


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



David M Porter
05 July 2018 19:14:05

I think it's time to stick the (barbecue) fork in this spell now. The writing is on the wall now with even the ECM calling an end to the settled stuff.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

I wouldn't call and end to it just yet tbh, Rob. More runs are still needed in my view.

For instance, I seem to recall that about three weeks ago when the models first began to pick up on the arrival of the HP cell from the Azores which has given us this heatwave, a few GFS and ECM runs at that time were indicating that it would last for no more than a few days before pressure either fell from the NW or there was a thundery breakdown from the south. Yet here we are, a fortnight on from when this fantastic spell began and any possible breakdown is still at least a week away.

GFS and the ECM 12z may be right, but I wouldn't be making assumptions either way at the moment because this is not a normal pattern we are experiencing.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

Rob K
05 July 2018 19:22:50

 

I wouldn't call and end to it just yet tbh, Rob. More runs are still needed in my view.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

I will be keeping an eye on the Met Office updates. At the moment they are still fairly bullish about the rest of July, but that could change.

The automated output on my phone reflects the steady downgrade of the models: this morning it was showing a run of 28s and 29s right out to the end of the 10-day period. Now it is 25s to 27s. Still looks like a mostly fine week coming up - don't get me wrong! I just want some more heat, as down here in the south the nagging easterly wind has often prevented it being a real scorcher.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
05 July 2018 19:32:05
We’ve probably suffered from having seen a proper heatwave in the charts a few days ago, with mid 30s. It’s stopped us focusing on today and the following 3 days all of which promise 30C+ maxes. Today hit 31C in Pershore for example.

Any other year a 4, possibly 5 day run of 30s would be considered a good heatwave, whereas I’m finding myself discounting it as a run up to the main event which was going to be next week.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Rob K
05 July 2018 19:42:52

We’ve probably suffered from having seen a proper heatwave in the charts a few days ago, with mid 30s. It’s stopped us focusing on today and the following 3 days all of which promise 30C+ maxes. Today hit 31C in Pershore for example.

Any other year a 4, possibly 5 day run of 30s would be considered a good heatwave, whereas I’m finding myself discounting it as a run up to the main event which was going to be next week.

Originally Posted by: TimS 

Yes, Arpege is still going for maxima of 31C, 33C, 34C, 32C over the next four days, which is not bad at all. It also shows minima not falling below 22C overnight in some places, which I think is a bit optimistic.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

Ally Pally Snowman
05 July 2018 19:50:31

 

Yes, Arpege is still going for maxima of 31C, 33C, 34C, 32C over the next four days, which is not bad at all. It also shows minima not falling below 22C overnight in some places, which I think is a bit optimistic.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

 

Arpege was the best model regarding temps today so id expect those temps to be pretty close.

ECM quite progressive today the other models continue the heat but maybe mid 20s rather than low 30s.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
xioni2
05 July 2018 19:57:36

I think it's time to stick the (barbecue) fork in this spell. 

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Over the last 48h the EC ens has been trending towards a breakdown after the ~15th of July (with pressure rising over Greenland).

I think it will probably fail again (as will the very hot runs).

Expect a bit more uncertainty in the MetO updates for H2 July.

 

Polar Low
05 July 2018 20:03:52

You dont need big 850;s this time of year Rob they only become more important about after the 3 week of August 

looks like a typical n/w s/e split to me.

 

I think it's time to stick the (barbecue) fork in this spell. The writing is on the wall now with even the ECM calling an end to the settled stuff. After Tuesday the 850s look like retreating back into single figures for much of the country now. As ever, as soon as the media start to get on board, the models flip.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Polar Low
05 July 2018 20:31:30

But you can’t measure 2 Metre T like that in July  this is for London across its members  some keep it very warm until 21st

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_table.php?x=0&y=0&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&run=12&ext=fr&mode=7&sort=0

 

 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten.php?map=1&model=GEM&var=2&time=312&run=12&lid=P02&h=0&tr=6 

It has stood firm a few times earlier in the season where GFS showed a breakdown, although in the last few times it was on the same side as ECM.

Ally Pally Snowman
05 July 2018 20:39:58

Day 9 ECM means nothing to alarming perhaps no heatwave but above average temps and little rain. I think some are getting overly worried for nothing. 

 

 

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.html

 

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2162.html

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Bertwhistle
05 July 2018 20:46:37

There was a good stagnant block in July 13, after such a grim late winter. Has anyone considered the possibilities beyond the party line that a late winter SSW event could have a +ve feedback effect for later in the year? 1947 might be another example to investigate but I find sadly that continuous Start temps were not maintained until 1951. The protocul statement is that it can take from a few days to a few weeks to take place-

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/wind/sudden-stratospheric-warming

which translated means to me the scientists have not fully understood the science involved (unsurprising giving the timescales of continuous measurement) and/or the effects are not predictable precisely. Either way, I would suggest there is a possibility of longer term effects if the SSW is significant enough to begin with; after all, the event sometimes produces little surface outcome eg in terms of winter cold; why not an enhanced outcome on other occasions? 

Physicists (I am not one): can systems be perpetuated longer than expected because of their +ve feedbacks and deviations from expected?

Someone do a correlation of late winter SSWs of any magnitude, and anomalous blocking patterns (ie not the Atlantic N-S aligned high to our west). It's got to be worth it- can't be any forgettable than the OPI surely?


Bertie, Itchen Valley.

Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.

xioni2
05 July 2018 20:47:32

Day 9 ECM means nothing to alarming perhaps no heatwave but above average temps and little rain. I think some are getting overly worried for nothing. 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

To be fair the EC mean for day 12 does have a trough over the UK and a WNW flow, but that's still too far out and I'd be surprised if it comes forward.

 

Bertwhistle
05 July 2018 20:49:52

 

Yes, Arpege is still going for maxima of 31C, 33C, 34C, 32C over the next four days, which is not bad at all. It also shows minima not falling below 22C overnight in some places, which I think is a bit optimistic.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Would depend on the lucky coincidence cloud cover, humidity and breeze away from city centres, but with very strong sunshine and ambients of 32+, 20+ mins is certainly a chance. Higher would, I agree, need higher 850s.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.

Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.

Ally Pally Snowman
05 July 2018 20:53:41

 

To be fair the EC mean for day 12 does have a trough over the UK and a WNW flow, but that's still too far out and I'd be surprised if it comes forward.

 

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

 

It's going to be interesting to see if we do go unsettled mid month and how long its lasts. A real test for the models. Looks set fair for the next 8 to 10 days though.

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Sevendust
05 July 2018 21:51:36

 

 

It's going to be interesting to see if we do go unsettled mid month and how long its lasts. A real test for the models. Looks set fair for the next 8 to 10 days though.

 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Tipping point remains around 15th July IMO

Bearing in mind the June Monsoon never materialised it remains in the balance for me.

Would be nice to get a shot at the furnace but no sign of intense heat at present 

iPope
05 July 2018 22:53:48

GFS in recent days has overcooked the shower risk. I remember seeing a discussion a few days ago about how much rain there would be this week. ICON and Arpege were both much nearer the mark than GFS. Having said that I've been in St Mawes, Cornwall this week and yesterday it was cool, quite windy and very wet. Didn't feel like the UK was enjoying the best start to summer since 1976.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Off topic - I am over the water from St. Mawes, and have been off work due to a recent emergency op for the past 2 weeks. To be fair, the weather has been amazing during this period, to the point I was actually feeling guilty for being in recovery during it!

This week I returned back to work, and yes it has been hit and miss, wet at times, and not so good. That said, the days rain yesterday was much needed and received!

2nd weekend in June down here I was participating in an ultra marathon that was brutal because of the extreme heat and sun. And this kind of stayed. This week has been the only diversion from that weather there has been since June. Sorry Brian, you chose the wrong week! 😁

In many years I have not known such a sustainable period of warmth, clear weather here. 

 

Ally Pally Snowman
06 July 2018 07:28:08

ECM delays the breakdown to day 10 again pushed back to 16th July now.

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Brian Gaze
06 July 2018 07:30:00

Arpege going for 35C this Sunday:


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Jiries
06 July 2018 07:31:46

ECM delays the breakdown to day 10 again pushed back to 16th July now.

 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

As expected because that what we suffered before during poor summers that unsettled breakdown to settled weather never come below 10 days range,  Make a change and hope to see this continuing.   I booked 4 weeks off from next weekend onward mainly due to moving house so need lot of settled days to move stuff around.

Jiries
06 July 2018 07:35:51

Arpege going for 35C this Sunday:

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Would be a record 23C range from 12C uppers with 35C max somewhere, it show the drier the ground is the range from uppers to ground surface become more further apart than normal 15C range.  What about Monday as I am off?  At least everyone is off on Sunday and should see all beaches packed with low 30's on the south coast.

Bolty
06 July 2018 08:56:19

Day 9 ECM means nothing to alarming perhaps no heatwave but above average temps and little rain. I think some are getting overly worried for nothing. 

 

 

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.html

 

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2162.html

 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Indeed. To get a summer with pretty much no unsettled breaks is virtually impossible, if I'm honest. Even 1976 and 1995 had some cooler and unsettled periods at times. Low-20s and the odd shower is still not bad... have we really become that used to warmth and dryness?

19 July 1976: low pressure over the UK:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/archive/1976/noaa/NOAA_1_1976071900_1.png

4 July 1995: northerly winds and low pressure heading down the North Sea:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/archive/1995/noaa/NOAA_1_1995070400_1.png

Anyway this morning's runs haven't really changed much. GFS keeping us pleasantly warm with high pressure not too far away. ECM threatens to bring the Atlantic in by day 9, but never really gets anywhere at this stage:


Scott

Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.

My weather station 

Hungry Tiger
06 July 2018 09:03:13

Good ridging.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/UKMOPEU12_144_1.png

 


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
06 July 2018 09:16:56

 

Indeed. To get a summer with pretty much no unsettled breaks is virtually impossible, if I'm honest. Even 1976 and 1995 had some cooler and unsettled periods at times. Low-20s and the odd shower is still not bad... have we really become that used to warmth and dryness?

19 July 1976: low pressure over the UK:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/archive/1976/noaa/NOAA_1_1976071900_1.png

4 July 1995: northerly winds and low pressure heading down the North Sea:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/archive/1995/noaa/NOAA_1_1995070400_1.png

Anyway this morning's runs haven't really changed much. GFS keeping us pleasantly warm with high pressure not too far away. ECM threatens to bring the Atlantic in by day 9, but never really gets anywhere at this stage:

Originally Posted by: Bolty 

I think we’ve just got used to the weather breaking up when the schools do!  


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

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Brian Gaze
06 July 2018 10:18:05

My view this morning is that the signal for a breakdown has weakened. 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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