The Weather Outlook

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TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
16 May 2018 14:47:51

I'm wondering why there is now a recurring theme of HP over Scandinavia over the last few months. Before this it was considered a real rarity. Something must have changed.

Originally Posted by: Nick Gilly 

Yes, hard to say but it does seem to be a thing.

At macro level we have:

  • Neutral to moderately positive AMO: nothing new
  • Fading La Niña with background of resilient positive PDO (this PDO state does seem to be a real change)
  • Neutral to slightly low Eurasian snow cover (nothing new)
  • Very low arctic sea ice (nothing new)
  • Relatively low soil moisture across central and Northern Europe, but I think this is a symptom not a  cause
  • Cold ocean in the Atlantic cold spot off Greenland (a bit scary but nothing new)

Ive been watching the PDO. It does seem to have flipped since the last big El Niño. Despite 2 years of La Niña it is still neutral, which suggests it may now be in a long term warm phase. Perhaps that’s a factor. Or perhaps just randomness.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Dingle Rob
16 May 2018 15:09:33

Interesting that over here in Australia we have a very strong blocking high in the bight. It's not unusual for this to be a feature here in May, but the intensity and duration is quite something. Here in Perth we are having an exceptionally dry and warm month. Interesting there is significant blocking in the Northern hemisphere as well.

Originally Posted by: Perthite1 

 

Didn't it all kick off in Feb with that mega SSW event? I recall Brian (I think) saying something along the lines of whether this could cause a major pattern shift. Since then we have had a completely different set up.

LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
16 May 2018 19:04:23

.

Today it seems like the GFS and the ECMWF are backing curvy temperature pattern both warm and also chilly weather is supported along with some fine and dry spells, clear skies night and day as well and some Low Pressure coming off the cold NW and N Atlantic Sea at times with rain cross UK then a few blustery showers.

Three fine and very warm days and a thunderstorm or some cool chilly nights and days, a very mixed outlook indeed.

 


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.

Hungry Tiger
16 May 2018 19:56:18

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Btw -I took a look at Scandinavia and Oslo was 28.0C today and Stockholm 27.0C so its certainly on the cards here as possible.

 


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



Gavin P
17 May 2018 11:27:09

With these charts not updating

http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/temp4

http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/prec4

Anyone know where I can find equivalent 8 day temp and precipitation anomaly charts?


Rural West Northants 120m asl

Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids

White Meadows
17 May 2018 13:11:30

 

 

Didn't it all kick off in Feb with that mega SSW event? I recall Brian (I think) saying something along the lines of whether this could cause a major pattern shift. Since then we have had a completely different set up.

Originally Posted by: Dingle Rob 

Yes- this was mentioned a few times before, during and after the record strat warming. 

If indeed we have broken out of the past 30yr NH pattern we could certainly be in for a very different type of winter in Northern Europe and the UK

Polar Low
17 May 2018 18:37:08

 Hi Gav, I sometimes times use this link mostly only for fun

https://www.met.hu/en/idojaras/elorejelzes/europai_elorejelzes/

 

 

With these charts not updating

http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/temp4

http://www.wxmaps.org/pix/prec4

Anyone know where I can find equivalent 8 day temp and precipitation anomaly charts?

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 

TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
17 May 2018 23:20:40
Famous last words / jinx alert...

I'm liking the look of the charts at the moment and what they "might" mean for the summer. An Azores high displaced North, a block in Scandinavia, lots of nice horizontal anticyclones and a tendency to Easterlies. Feels 1995ish. And that 1995 thread that's caught everyone's imagination, and the fact that in an era of global warming we don't have a stand-out summer in this decade despite the fact the near continent has had several.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Brian Gaze
18 May 2018 05:52:34

Wrt 1995 I flagged it up in early April here:

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twoother/twocontent.aspx?type=hpnews&id=4280&title=Summer+2018+weather

I continue to think there is a (low but significant) chance of it being repeated this year. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised to see an increased frequency of cool northwesterly spells during JJA.  


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
18 May 2018 06:21:21

Wrt 1995 I flagged it up in early April here:

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twoother/twocontent.aspx?type=hpnews&id=4280&title=Summer+2018+weather

I continue to think there is a (low but significant) chance of it being repeated this year. On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised to see an increased frequency of cool northwesterly spells during JJA.  

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

GFS 0z producing just such a spell the instant June starts - FI but ties in with the 'June Monsoon', and at least the whole BH week looks fine

 

For the immediate future, LP over France looks on the fax chart to be bringing in a few showery troughs over S England next week


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

some faraway beach
18 May 2018 09:36:48

 

 

Didn't it all kick off in Feb with that mega SSW event? I recall Brian (I think) saying something along the lines of whether this could cause a major pattern shift. Since then we have had a completely different set up.

Originally Posted by: Dingle Rob 

Yes. Brian did suggest that as a possibility.

When we then had those extraordinary, old-school, long-fetch easterlies in March, the sort of things which some had said were a thing of the past, I remember comparing the February SSW to the unblocking of a drain.

Years ago I'd stood waist-deep in a roadside ditch for what seemed like ages, fruitlessly trying to clear a blocked tunnel under the road using a long length of hazel. Suddenly there was a violent gurgling, and I was almost swept off my feet as decades of accumulated debris gave way. The point of the comparison was the after-effect. The whole landscape changed. Upstream of the blockage, what had deemed like permanent ponds had disappeared; meanwhile, downstream, new ones formed.

Given that the atmosphere is just another fluid, I wondered whether the vast amounts of heat which had been belched into space in that February event might turn out also to have an unblocking effect, with similarly radical alterations to the atmospheric landscape.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.

Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.

Hungry Tiger
18 May 2018 09:37:43

Very nice.

http://old.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.html

 


Gavin S. FRmetS.

TWO Moderator.

Contact the TWO team - [email protected]

South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.



TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
18 May 2018 10:16:54

Note that the new pattern we’ve had since February is different from the kinds of negative AO / NAO periods we got around 2007-2012. There is no Greenland high. In fact the GH is as weak as I can remember. It’s not the kind of pattern you’d expect from an AO reversal or indeed from low solar activity.

The jet stream is not diving South under northern blocking: its bifurcating but mainly riding over the top.


Even when the models throw out cool northwesterlies they are doing so from a mid Atlantic anticyclone, not ridging into Greenland. That is substantially different from the last few years. I can’t help thinking it’s a +PDO thing rather than the SSW (which reverses the AO).

U.K. summers this decade have fallen some way behind the general U.K. or European temperature trend. At some point we will surely overshoot in the other direction.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Gavin P
18 May 2018 10:59:23

 Hi Gav, I sometimes times use this link mostly only for fun

https://www.met.hu/en/idojaras/elorejelzes/europai_elorejelzes/

 

 

 

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 

 

Thanks Polar Low?

 

Is that the fabled ECM 30 day ensembles? 


Rural West Northants 120m asl

Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
19 May 2018 06:12:52

 

GFS 0z producing just such a NW spell the instant June starts - FI but ties in with the 'June Monsoon', and at least the whole BH week looks fine

 

For the immediate future, LP over France looks on the fax chart to be bringing in a few showery troughs over S England next week

Originally Posted by: DEW 

Much the same charts this morning, but more certainty over the showers and thunderstorms for the south, and the cool NW spell sets in a day earlier, on Fri 1st.


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

Brian Gaze
19 May 2018 06:31:38

GFS 5 day rainfall accumulation. I'm hoping to miss most of the showers. 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

GezM
  • GezM
  • Advanced Member
19 May 2018 07:22:16
The 3 'main models' showing a similar pattern now towards the Bank Holiday weekend. Another easterly sets in probably giving the South some cooler and cloudier weather. North West looks best. If you're heading to the Scottish highlands and islands you could get some stunning weather.
Living in St Albans, Herts (116m asl)

Working at Luton Airport, Beds (160m asl)

johncs2016
19 May 2018 08:09:56

The 3 'main models' showing a similar pattern now towards the Bank Holiday weekend. Another easterly sets in probably giving the South some cooler and cloudier weather. North West looks best. If you're heading to the Scottish highlands and islands you could get some stunning weather.

Originally Posted by: GezM 

An easterly at this time of year wouldn't be very good for this part of the world either or anywhere down the east coast of both Scotland and England for that matter. If the air from the near continent is dry enough, we would probably still get some sunny afternoons once any low cloud and east coast haar had burned off, due to that strong sunshine at this time of year (by the time in question, we will then just be less than a month away from the summer solstice).

However, I would imagine that it could get a bit depressing after a while seeing every morning start off with that easterly muck in the form of low cloud and/or haar, resulting in yet more grey skies  and another permacast hell. Furthermore, that cool wind from straight in off the North Sea would mean that it would never actually get all that warm here, even if the Sun does break through in the afternoon.

We had plenty of that easterly stuff at the very end of the winter and during the first half of this spring, so we could probably do without getting even more of that as we head towards the start of the actual summer. If we do though, I'm sure that we will be hearing plenty more from Richard from Aberdeen on this subject.

 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.

picturesareme
19 May 2018 10:15:23

The 3 'main models' showing a similar pattern now towards the Bank Holiday weekend. Another easterly sets in probably giving the South some cooler and cloudier weather. North West looks best. If you're heading to the Scottish highlands and islands you could get some stunning weather.

Originally Posted by: GezM 

Away from the east coast an easterly under high pressure at this time of year would bring plenty of fine and warm weather for central, southern & southwestrn areas, and Wales. 

idj20
19 May 2018 10:30:14

 

Away from the east coast an easterly under high pressure at this time of year would bring plenty of fine and warm weather for central, southern & southwestrn areas, and Wales. 

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 



Shades of late Spring 2013 if you ask me, where the eastern side and far south east of the UK ended up with a stunted start to the Summer while the West was best. Although the difference is current SST's being average for this time of year.


Home location: Folkestone Harbour.
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
19 May 2018 12:51:02
Bit of a split emerging for bank holiday weekend, with GFS, UKMO and ECM (and GEM) ops showing sunny and reasonably warm but several GFS ensemble members giving us a cold plunge. A few GEM ones too. Hope that’s not a trend.
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
picturesareme
19 May 2018 13:17:51



Shades of late Spring 2013 if you ask me, where the eastern side and far south east of the UK ended up with a stunted start to the Summer while the West was best. Although the difference is current SST's being average for this time of year.

Originally Posted by: idj20 

I agree. This year so far has been reminding me of 2013, and though details haven't been all the same the general patterns have been similar (i hope that makes sense). . . Remember though how good that summer was - July was a fantastic month.

David M Porter
19 May 2018 21:36:26

 

I agree. This year so far has been reminding me of 2013, and though details haven't been all the same the general patterns have been similar (i hope that makes sense). . . Remember though how good that summer was - July was a fantastic month.

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 

It was certainly a good one compared to the dross that we have had in almost every other summer in the past 11 years. save for 2014 which wasn't a bad one either in this part of the world. I think 2013 is remembered as a good one mostly because of that fantastic fortnight in July. June and August 2013, while not too generally, never really came close to scaling the same heights that July of that year did.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

picturesareme
19 May 2018 22:41:44

 

It was certainly a good one compared to the dross that we have had in almost every other summer in the past 11 years. save for 2014 which wasn't a bad one either in this part of the world. I think 2013 is remembered as a good one mostly because of that fantastic fortnight in July. June and August 2013, while not too generally, never really came close to scaling the same heights that July of that year did.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

Perhaps in Scotland is was a mucher shorter affair but pretty much the whole month of July south of the border it was a scorcher.

June if I remember correct had some hot days mixed with more unsettled stuff, but nothing unusual for June. 

August was very 'plain' lacking in any heatwaves, but still low to mid 20's. Was it that August that had an unusual cold spell early on??

2014 was as you say another beautiful summer.

Last year was a good summer I thought.

johncs2016
19 May 2018 23:42:20

 

Perhaps in Scotland is was a mucher shorter affair but pretty much the whole month of July south of the border it was a scorcher.

June if I remember correct had some hot days mixed with more unsettled stuff, but nothing unusual for June. 

August was very 'plain' lacking in any heatwaves, but still low to mid 20's. Was it that August that had an unusual cold spell early on??

2014 was as you say another beautiful summer.

Last year was a good summer I thought.

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 

Last year was a good summer down in England up until some point during July when everything then went downhill even down there.

Here in Scotland, it was a different story because after a dry spring which included our driest April on record here in Edinburgh, the summer then began on a really miserable note with what ended up being our wettest June on record here in Edinburgh.

To date, that is actually the last month in which I can remember us having 100 mm or more of rain during any given month at any of my three local stations here in Edinburgh, and this shows that last July and August weren't quite as bad here.

Nevertheless, even those months were still wetter than average (they just weren't as wet as last June) and so, that was rather a miserable summer overall.

Another point about last year was that the highest temperature of last summer here in Edinburgh was only about 25°C which was achieved on both days of one single weekend and yet, the temperature during last May reached 28°C here at one point in time, which then ended up being our highest temperature of the entire year.

So far, this has been a really good month with the temperature going above 20°C on a number of occasions. Yet, the temperature during this month so far has never come close at any time, to that highest temperature of the same month during last year despite all of the good weather which we have had. Furthermore, there are also no signs of us getting close to that sort of temperature here either, even though the overall outlook is still looking good.

So yes, there was some decent summer weather last year. It's just that very little of that came during the actual summer itself.

 

 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.

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