The Weather Outlook

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Jonesy
16 November 2016 00:44:13

After this upcoming stormy looking spell I hope we can take advantage of the next colder spell and get it go last for a while and dare I say give many of us an early Christmas Present and our snowy fix so that we can relax a little as Winter comes and goes.

I'm usually patient when it comes to the weather but I fear too many close but no cigar situations will occur this upcoming winter.

I always feel like December comes and goes so quick that before you know it well be into January and getting towards the halfway point.

Enjoy the ride 

 


Medway Towns (Kent)

The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !

Triumph800
16 November 2016 01:59:17
Quite a start this year, however I wouldn't get my hopes up too much. I'm no expert but I've seen many years start off looking very promising only for them to fall into a damp mild routine.

I quite hope we get a repeat of 2009-10 or 2010-11, instead of a repeat of the recent years. Fingers crossed!!

Saint Snow
16 November 2016 11:54:51

Snow during winter 2008-09

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 

">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21ECQXUnVJc

 

LOL! Using Lanky's link, I found this post from me dated 05/02/09:

 

Earlier hope provided by the 18z GFS precip charts completely evaporated now. It was always going to be a fingers-crossed episode here, but I've given up on our chances after seeing the main PPN band make landfall way to the east of where it had to be if we were to get any decent fall.

Ah well, there's always Friday's and Saturday's potential to leave me grasping at straws... oShy

The snow-deflectors have done their job well so far this winter.

Saint Snow wrote:

 

I knew I wasn't wrong!


Martin

Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)

A TWO addict since 14/12/01

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

Aneurin Bevan

Brian Gaze
16 November 2016 12:45:29

 

Even managed about 20cm here in the suburbs of London from that event which was better than anything here since and before that had to go back to the "wrong kind of snow" back in 1991 to better it

Long since deleted from TWO but the "Wayback Machine" has a cache of the TWO page from that time showing page after page of snow pictures (where the photo has not been moved).

https://web.archive.org/web/20090204144013/http://theweatheroutlook.com/twocommunity/forums/t/24338.aspx

(slow to load)

 

Originally Posted by: lanky 

What was Dec 2009 like there? Here we had 20cm quickly followed by another 16cm snow.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

lanky
16 November 2016 15:32:46

 

What was Dec 2009 like there? Here we had 20cm quickly followed by another 16cm snow.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I don't think we had any snow here worthy of mention in December 2009. According to my photo records the only snow that winter was 10th January 2010 and looks to be about 5-10cm

I have a vague recollection (maybe faulty) of snow forecasts for London in December 2009 but as often happens it was moving in from the west and just fizzled before it got here. One of those peak viewing months on TWO full of frantic excitement and expectation swiftly followed by severe criticism of Met Office forecasts

 

 

 


Martin

Richmond, Surrey

Brian Gaze
16 November 2016 15:55:39

 

I don't think we had any snow here worthy of mention in December 2009. According to my photo records the only snow that winter was 10th January 2010 and looks to be about 5-10cm

I have a vague recollection (maybe faulty) of snow forecasts for London in December 2009 but as often happens it was moving in from the west and just fizzled before it got here. One of those peak viewing months on TWO full of frantic excitement and expectation swiftly followed by severe criticism of Met Office forecasts

Originally Posted by: lanky 

Quite amazing that 25 miles up the road there was a 35cm covering. 


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Solar Cycles
16 November 2016 15:59:26

 

Quite amazing that 25 miles up the road there was a 35cm covering. 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Thats the problem being a UK snow addict, everything is so localised and one can miss out on an event by mere miles or meters.

Russwirral
16 November 2016 16:02:15

Jamstec has updated for November, and its not good reading

 

 

saying that, It does look a bit odd that the fact the majority of Russia is already well well below normal and has been for some time, are they predicting a massive reversal?  If so, where will that cold go to?  Almost all of the Northern Hm is predicted to have a warmer than normal Winter.  

 

If it had said the pole and the US, then maybe i would have believed it, but i just cant follow this chart based on current annomalies.  Would take a enormous temperature correction to change this.


David M Porter
16 November 2016 16:12:39

Jamstec has updated for November, and its not good reading

 

 

saying that, It does look a bit odd that the fact the majority of Russia is already well well below normal and has been for some time, are they predicting a massive reversal?  If so, where will that cold go to?  Almost all of the Northern Hm is predicted to have a warmer than normal Winter.  

 

If it had said the pole and the US, then maybe i would have believed it, but i just cant follow this chart based on current annomalies.  Would take a enormous temperature correction to change this.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

How reliable or otherwise is this Jamstec model? It's not one that I've been familiar with I have to say.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

Russwirral
16 November 2016 16:18:41

 

How reliable or otherwise is this Jamstec model? It's not one that I've been familiar with I have to say.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

 

I know its one that the Metoffice reviews as part of their forecasting.  So cant be that naff.


KevBrads1
16 November 2016 17:26:21

Jamstec has updated for November, and its not good reading

 

 

saying that, It does look a bit odd that the fact the majority of Russia is already well well below normal and has been for some time, are they predicting a massive reversal?  If so, where will that cold go to?  Almost all of the Northern Hm is predicted to have a warmer than normal Winter.  

 

If it had said the pole and the US, then maybe i would have believed it, but i just cant follow this chart based on current annomalies.  Would take a enormous temperature correction to change this.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

How can the Eurasian continent be above average except Mongolia?!


MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238

Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists

doctormog
16 November 2016 17:28:46

 

How reliable or otherwise is this Jamstec model? It's not one that I've been familiar with I have to say.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

I'm not sure David but it does show a colder than average winter for Scotland and Ireland. 


Rob K
16 November 2016 17:31:32

 

I'm not sure David but it does show a colder than average winter for Scotland and Ireland. 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

 

Southern Algeria looks a bit chilly too. 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl

"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome

some faraway beach
16 November 2016 17:38:14

Jamstec has updated for November, and its not good reading

 

 

saying that, It does look a bit odd that the fact the majority of Russia is already well well below normal and has been for some time, are they predicting a massive reversal?  If so, where will that cold go to?  Almost all of the Northern Hm is predicted to have a warmer than normal Winter.  

 

If it had said the pole and the US, then maybe i would have believed it, but i just cant follow this chart based on current annomalies.  Would take a enormous temperature correction to change this.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 

I think the key to that one is in the top right ("9-member"). Anomalies based on an ensemble comprising just 9 runs for a whole season is simply random noise. I mean, look at how the GFS ensemble usually diverges into spaghetti after just a few days even with 20 members in its ensemble.

Edit: Even the Japanese website itself admits the JAMSTEC seasonal ensemble is supposed to consist of 27 member. For some reason (lack of time/money?) they've omitted one of the the "nudges" they mention in the last paragraph here:
http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frcgc/research/d1/iod/e/seasonal/overview.html

For creating ensemble members based on initial conditions in our prediction system, model sea surface temperature is nudged toward three different observed sea surface temperatures besides three different negative feedback values to the surface heat flux. In addition, three different atmosphere-ocean coupling schemes are employed to represent other ensemble members. Through this processes, in total 27 ensemble members are employed for our seasonal to interannual climate predictions initiated every month.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.

Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.

warrenb
16 November 2016 17:43:14
It also has it all wrong, Eurasia is warm and Greenland is cold, the exact opposite to what it actually is. Unless we go super zonal in the next 2 weeks, it is wrong out of the gate
doctormog
16 November 2016 17:45:24

 

 

Southern Algeria looks a bit chilly too. 

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Not many forum members from there though? I was replying to David and both of us live in a part with a cold anomaly. 


KevBrads1
16 November 2016 17:56:55

It also has it all wrong, Eurasia is warm and Greenland is cold,

Originally Posted by: warrenb 

Except Mongolia that is....


MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238

Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists

the converted
17 November 2016 21:56:26

We had our first taste of Winter in Dublin this morning with 3 hours of transitional snow. Didtnt  lodge but it was so nice to see Temperatures took a nose dive fom +7 when I left to go to work to+1 just above freezing, Real good stuff. Roll on December

tallyho_83
18 November 2016 01:41:32

 

How can the Eurasian continent be above average except Mongolia?!

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 

Re the Jamstec - I love how it is just Mongolia that's blue!


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)


Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

warrenb
18 November 2016 16:20:21
Interesting snow watch this year, they have just replaced all our street lights with white LED ones.

No more orangey glow over the town.


Bertwhistle
18 November 2016 17:19:32

Interesting snow watch this year, they have just replaced all our street lights with white LED ones.
No more orangey glow over the town.

Originally Posted by: warrenb 

I do understand what you mean. That orangey glow was something my mother used to say was a 'sign of snow' even: who needs 850s?

But that was in the 70s.

Joseph Farquharson was a Scottish painter who could have been an anywhere-in-England painter with his orange sun on the snow. His paintings are something to enjoy in winters like last year's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Farquharson

 


Bertie, Itchen Valley.

Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.

CreweCold
18 November 2016 23:16:03

Interesting snow watch this year, they have just replaced all our street lights with white LED ones.
No more orangey glow over the town.

Originally Posted by: warrenb 

We had ours done a year or so back...funnily enough they don't seem as good for lampost watching....but that may well be because the first winter to try them out on was 15/16.....


Crewe, Cheshire

55 metres above sea level

Whether Idle
19 November 2016 06:38:14

This SST anomaly map is alarming in many respects though there is at least one piece of good news. The positive anomalies in the Arctic seas are large, and cannot be denied or ignored.  Their cause I will leave you to figure out yourselves. 

One line of thinking could be that the warmth is now so anomalous that the disruptions to the lower atmosphere must be significant, and if this disruption can propagate into the upper atmosphere then, in some parts of the world, (ie NW Europe) a disruption of the PV, and possibly a zonal westerly flow, could be of benefit as cold air (albeit less cold than in ideal scenarios in decades past) could ooze our way as the winter develops.  Here we are in autumn, but the signs are promising in terms of the PV.

My view is that it will be a waiting game, and eventually in December we could see a Scandi-Icelandic High which might form for a week or so and bring a cold snap bringing wet snow to prone locations.

A further positive to be drawn from the map, is that in the seas of warm seas off the Grand Banks there are some negative anomalies, and in areas of colder seas off Newfoundland there are warm anomalies.  Net result - a less steep thermal gradient for cyclogenesis.

https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/ncoda_web/dynamic/ncoda_1440x721_global_anom.gif

Interesting this year, things are.

 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
roger63
  • roger63
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
19 November 2016 10:11:42

I am baffled by the QBO.We currently have record number of consecutive  QBO + months 17 to be precise.One might expect a stronger polar vortex rather than a weaker one.A possible explanation  being advanced is  that the Arctic currently has record breaking + temperature anomalies which would have the effect of reducing the normal temperature gradient thus weakening the jet.

Gavin D
21 November 2016 12:26:42
WSI: The European winter now looks colder than originally expected

Dec: Slightly warmer than Normal

Jan: Slightly colder than normal

Feb: Colder than normal

https://business.weather.com/news/european-seasonal-forecast-unusual-early-season-cold-a-sign-of-further-wintry-conditions 

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