I agree that any lockdown has a limited lifespan of 6-8 weeks, before people get fed up and break it

But you need to use that time wisely - do it properly to get the rate down and prepare infrastructure for track and trace when you come out of lockdown

We have done neither

 

Completely untrue Beast. Test capacity has been massively ramped up, anyone who wants a test can now request one, 21,000 contact tracers have been recruited. Why do you post falsehoods like the above?

 

Your  capacity to spout about subjects in which you have very limited knowledge is remarkable.

I assume that you’ve seen a typical restaurant kitchen and will know any ‘distancing’ is a non-starter. As for people crowded into restaurants, beer gardens and so on, that’s a guaranteed way of spreading the virus. Restricting numbers will mean queues of people not respecting social distancing.

Look, the experts say they still don’t know a lot about this virus. It really doesn’t seem like a sensible plan to take too many risks together.  

Given the number of deaths already recorded I’m surprised you are willing to contemplate 500k being sacrificed for the good of the economy. 

Your capacity to be dismissive without presenting a valid argument is remarkable.

If you read what I wrote, I understand the requirement to shield the vulnerable as far as possible, to put in place track and trace and to isolate those who have tested positive and their contacts.

Meanwhile, I have not suggested opening indoor restaurants and bars, but rather to follow the example of other European countries who permit on-street service for food and drink (weather permitting).

P.S. and like Beast, you were one of those being dismissive of the risks in the early days, especially when it came it international mass travel.

 

Worth noting that these other European countries are all seeing hundreds, rather than thousands, of new cases a day. Get ours down to that range and yes, I'd agree on re-opening stuff. As it stands, we're still seeing far too many cases!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

(Click on the Europe tab, yesterday, sort by cases. Only Russia is seeing more cases).

Precisely: it’s about managing the risk.  

Jumping from a ground floor window is pretty safe; jumping from a 1st floor one obviously less safe; leaping from a higher one becomes increasingly risky.

Richard seems happy to push people out of windows on upper floors whilst pointing out that others are stepping out of ground floor windows safely.

 

Given the pathology of the virus and the profile of those most at risk, we need to get the rest of society functioning as normally as possible.

Given the shocking unemployment figures this morning, the cure is proving more damaging than the virus. Shield the most vulnerable and then start most things back up, but with sensible precautions in place. Fortunately, we are now in the more benign time of year when outdoor activities should be most prevalent. Provided people are sensible (always with that caveat), outdoor restaurants, beer gardens and on street wining and dining should all be possible without risk.

Again, we need to get younger children back to school, not simply for their own sake (they need some formal classroom lessons before the summer break), but also to free up their parents to return to work.

Other European countries are showing the way in restarting enterprises, including hairdressers for example - it is all doable, it just needs some common sense and can do spirit.

If people like you led the way we might follow. What are you doing? Are you taking risks? What ones?

Went to Halfords for antifreeze (click and collect) and Sainsbury's yesterday. I find the social distancing at shops deeply depressing. I know it's necessary but having to stand outside the shop in a queue with no interaction with anybody else and then being served by somebody in the doorway behind a plastic screen wearing a mask...

It's pretty awful. I'd rather shop online than this.

 

Completely untrue Beast. Test capacity has been massively ramped up, anyone who wants a test can now request one, 21,000 contact tracers have been recruited. Why do you post falsehoods like the above?

Very interesting item on R4 about this yesterday. Yes, the headline numbers are up around 100,000 tests a day being 'processed'. But only about 60,000 people are actually being tested. More worryingly, tests are taking up to 13 days to come back from private labs. The median time is apparently four days. The NHS, employers, all of us... need these turned round in two days max. This has to be resolved pronto.

The problem here is that HMG and posters like you are trying to put the cart before the horse. Hancock talks a good game in Parliament but the reality is wildly different to the rosy picture he is trying to paint.

 

Very interesting item on R4 about this yesterday. Yes, the headline numbers are up around 100,000 tests a day being 'processed'. But only about 60,000 people are actually being tested. More worryingly, tests are taking up to 13 days to come back from private labs. The median time is apparently four days. The NHS, employers, all of us... need these turned round in two days max. This has to be resolved pronto.

The problem here is that HMG and posters like you are trying to put the cart before the horse. Hancock talks a good game in Parliament but the reality is wildly different to the rosy picture he is trying to paint.

I agree - next step is to improve response times, but these things take time to organise.

As for numbers of tests - that has always been the metric rather than number of people tested. It is well known that a number of people have to be tested more than once because of the problem of false negative results.

 

I agree - next step is to improve response times, but these things take time to organise.

As for numbers of tests - that has always been the metric rather than number of people tested. It is well known that a number of people have to be tested more than once because of the problem of false negative results.

Then all this has to be organised and in place and working properly before we have a free for all in hairdressers and pubs and restaurants and cafes. Otherwise we a going to create more problems.

Surely you can see that?

Saw this on Facebook this morning - for the attention of Geoff (Beast) 

 

https://www.facebook.com/1107181004/posts/10222003694897253/?d=n

😂😂😂😂😂

He does make some valid points, but a death toll of >60,000 is not some sort of success

Matalan have reopened 12 stores in England as part of the governments essential retailer list.

• Basildon


• Bradford Green Gates


• Bolton


• Cortonwood


• Darlington


• Halifax


• Leeds Halton


• Luton


• Rotherham


• Southport


• Truro


• Walsall - North

 

Completely untrue Beast. Test capacity has been massively ramped up, anyone who wants a test can now request one, 21,000 contact tracers have been recruited. Why do you post falsehoods like the above?

I refer you to Justin's post and these tracers are not yet working! 

Besides, contact tracing is only effective if they know the local area and have trust of the local people. They need people to reveal their contacts - friends and family. 

Its a trust thing. We don't have that in our fractured society

Remember the pledge about putting all homeless people in hotels? Our local rag has an update from Canterbury. It's interesting, if nothing else!

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/what-happened-to-the-rough-sleepers-put-into-hotels-during-lockdown-227350/

New statistics from the local authority show that since it struck the £163,000-deal with the budget hotel chain, five people have already been placed in long-term accommodation.

Two more have received offers for housing, four now have jobs, 20 are receiving drug and alcohol support and eight have reconnected with family and old friends from the area they originated from.

But others have struggled to adjust to life indoors, with several having been forced to leave the hotel for a variety of reasons, including smoking in their rooms and fighting.

This is a pattern that is common with our volunteer winter night shelters here. It tends to reflect the reasons why people are homeless in the first place and they are quite varied.

 

On that particular issue I disagree with you. The children who will benefit most from a return to school are those from the most disadvantaged backgrounds. If a hyperventilating middle class mum decides her children are too much at risk from a return to school (which they would not be), then that is her prerogative, but if they lose out as a consequence because online lessons end, then that is also her choice.

 

What exactly do you mean by this ??

Meanwhile, China clearly has something to hide:

"The bitter battle between China and Australia has now exploded onto the world stage, after 100 nations joined Canberra in calling for an inquiry into the spread of coronavirus, including the UK. The European Union, alongside several other countries including the UK, Australia and New Zealand, are pushing for an inquiry into how the pandemic has been handled and what lessons can be learned. In April, Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison demanded an independent probe into the deadly respiratory virus and the World Health Organisation 's handling of the crisis. In response, Chinese state media and leaders warned of trade retribution that could wipe $135billion from the Australian economy. After weeks of threatening to boycott the meat and barley industries and restrict travel and foreign education opportunities, China on Monday announced an 80.5 per cent levy on barley exports starting on Tuesday." 

I fully agree there should be a proper independent inquiry into how it originated and how it has been handled. But it's a bit hypocritical when we ask this of our Government and we are told it's too early for recriminations and it should be left till after the crisis is over. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

They. Are. Blaming. The. Scientists.@mrjamesob & others warned us that this would happen. https://t.co/7MgE5Dc88C

— Maureen Brown (@MaureenBrown27) May 19, 2020

 

I refer you to Justin's post and these tracers are not yet working! 

Besides, contact tracing is only effective if they know the local area and have trust of the local people. They need people to reveal their contacts - friends and family. 

Its a trust thing. We don't have that in our fractured society

That is just your perception. Also, the talk is of reopening pubs and restaurants in early July, so there is time to get everything properly organised in the meantime, although it would be nice if beer gardens at least could open in the interim.

P.S. why does Beast think we are impressed by his Twitteritus? Who the f!!! is Maureen Brown in any case and why should I give a monkey's about her opinion on anything?

 

That is just your perception. Also, the talk is of reopening pubs and restaurants in early July, so there is time to get everything properly organised in the meantime, although it would be nice if beer gardens at least could open in the interim.

P.S. why does Beast think we are impressed by his Twitteritus? Who the f!!! is Maureen Brown in any case and why should I give a monkey's about her opinion on anything?

 

I would like to hear your defence of the Immigration Bill which every Tory MP voted for, and which will charge £600 for foreign nurses and carers to access services 

Perhaps when Boris claps for carers on thursday he can shout "show me the money" 

'Interesting' chat over the garden fence with my Philippino born neighbour whose family are there. She said as regards infections they hadn't done 'too bad' over there. People have been kept to their own areas of the country by number plate recognition which depicts what district you live in.
Much surmising and conspiracy theories here on what caused the virus outbreak. Over there, just one source but they are saying it was germ warfare in development which managed to escape. I asked what nothing to do with bats or pangolins, and she said nope. The Chinese are being so secretive, they could totally erase any indication of such practice.

Amazing coincidence. I was chatting over the fence to my Palestinian neighbour. He was saying they were certain it was started by a leak from a secret Israeli weapons establishment. He said the Israelis are very secretive about their weapons establishment but he knows for a fact it has nothing to do with bats because his brother still lives in Palestine and works there as a plasterer told him. I asked him how come just about every intelligence agency and scientist in the World says it hasn't come from a lab but he said that is just because they all support Israel.

Matalan have reopened 12 stores in England as part of the governments essential retailer list.

• Basildon


• Bradford Green Gates


• Bolton


• Cortonwood


• Darlington


• Halifax


• Leeds Halton


• Luton


• Rotherham


• Southport


• Truro


• Walsall - North

Had to open in Bas. Denise Van Outen was born there.