The Weather Outlook

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Gandalf The White
10 February 2019 18:27:04

 

We are probably at the equivalent stage to 2007/8 when compared with the last cycle minimum 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Solar_cycle_24_sunspot_number_progression_and_prediction.gif

Although I will emphasise again that I’m not sure there is a direct correlation between SC minimum and northern blocking.

 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

I think it's been long-established that cold winters correlate with sunspot minima, which would imply more blocked patterns. But like SSWs, it's not a straightforward linkage because of the other factors involved.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



David M Porter
10 February 2019 18:31:13

 

We are probably at the equivalent stage to 2007/8 when compared with the last cycle minimum 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Solar_cycle_24_sunspot_number_progression_and_prediction.gif

Although I will emphasise again that I’m not sure there is a direct correlation between SC minimum and northern blocking.

 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Interesting point, Michael.

From what I recall of it, 2007/08 was a similar winter in nature to this one, i.e mostly mild and no notable cold spells. The following three winters were generally much better for cold fans though.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody." – Thomas Paine

Brian Gaze
10 February 2019 18:32:26

One potent lesson to take from this winter I think is that in the world of amateur meteorology their are no such things as experts.Having been on several forums over the winter months the term experts ( not on this forum I admit) is used regularly ie... Netweather, 33andrain and Americanwx. This winter has shredded many of those ego's. The so called teleconnection experts have had a mare of a season which is no bad thing. Anyone sceptical of their theories have been met with conceit and arrogance. No one knows why the MJO or SSW has not delivered, many including myself have theories but that is all they are theories. Even the Met have been back tracking with their medium to long range forecasts since early December. The models, glosea, mogreps, gfs and ecm offer a guide to the outlook and that is all which is far better than some amateur who thinks he is better at understanding the complex intricacies of the weather.

Originally Posted by: DPower 

The question to ask is what makes person x, y or z an expert? Is it because they use big words (despite not necessarily understanding them) or do they genuinely have years of experience and specialist knowledge? If so, is there empirical evidence to substantiate their claims? IMO we need to be careful not to end up in the land of alchemy.   


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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Gusty
10 February 2019 18:33:28

The MetO mid to long term models have also clearly and persistently been signalling for a decent chance of a colder set up too.

 

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 

It stands for nothing Dave. 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent

Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 

Join Kent Weather on Facebook.

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Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
10 February 2019 18:49:04

 

I thought we were well into solar minimum? Also winters 08/09 and 09/10 were during solar minimum and were largely blocked as well. 

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 

But you can’t just take one or two variables or influences in isolation. There are many others to factor into the equation to give us the big picture, possibly some that we’re not yet aware of and certainly some we don’t fully understand.  

Tally, you’re far more knowledgeable than me when it comes to reading the charts but even I know that the UK weather is very delicately balanced because we’re a small island.


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.

Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
10 February 2019 18:51:02

 

The question to ask is what makes person x, y or z an expert? Is it because they use big words (despite not necessarily understanding them) or do they genuinely have years of experience and specialist knowledge? If so, is there empirical evidence to substantiate their claims? IMO we need to be careful not to end up in the land of alchemy.   

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

  Second question - who gives out the titles of ‘expert’?


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.

Hippydave
10 February 2019 18:58:10

 

It stands for nothing Dave. 

Originally Posted by: Gusty 

Clearly true this year

Tis just interesting that whatever favourable long range signals there's been, the shorter term has pretty much just said 'no' to anything decent from a deep cold POV.

Looking at the GFS ens there's something of a chillier blip now appearing circa 18-22nd Feb and a fun 25c scatter in 850's in deep FI. Based on recent experience you'd favour the milder outcome but still, just a small chance of something a little more entertaining if you're a coldie.

I guess the only consolation with mild winning now rather than a few weeks ago is it can feel genuinely pleasant in any sunny spells, which isn't a bad outcome if the less likely colder solutions don't verify

 

 


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

Whether Idle
10 February 2019 19:09:16

 

Clearly true this year

Tis just interesting that whatever favourable long range signals there's been, the shorter term has pretty much just said 'no' to anything decent from a deep cold POV.

Looking at the GFS ens there's something of a chillier blip now appearing circa 18-22nd Feb and a fun 25c scatter in 850's in deep FI. Based on recent experience you'd favour the milder outcome but still, just a small chance of something a little more entertaining if you're a coldie.

I guess the only consolation with mild winning now rather than a few weeks ago is it can feel genuinely pleasant in any sunny spells, which isn't a bad outcome if the less likely colder solutions don't verify

 

 

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 

 There are a massive variety of options on the table for the latter third of the month.  Its looking potentially chilly by night and pleasant by day in the near term, and I think we will see a PM incursion around 19th, possibly stormy.  Check out the CMA for 19th:


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Solar Cycles
10 February 2019 19:09:50

 

The question to ask is what makes person x, y or z an expert? Is it because they use big words (despite not necessarily understanding them) or do they genuinely have years of experience and specialist knowledge? If so, is there empirical evidence to substantiate their claims? IMO we need to be careful not to end up in the land of alchemy.   

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Quite right.

Thats what I like about your forecast Brian, no unnecessary big/buzzwords and laid out in laymen’s terms. Too many pseudo experts on various forums preaching to the flock, and those new to this look up at them in awe until it goes t*ts up and they then disappear until the next merry dance comes along.

Gavin D
10 February 2019 19:18:26

It looks like Western Europe is going to see an early taste of spring this week

ECMOPEU12_24_2.thumb.png.af389d890b94bd1550c47b294e321593.pngECMOPEU12_72_2.thumb.png.4446d74e0db630030388fb371e06f8f2.pngECMOPEU12_120_2.thumb.png.3f776f821b11d355903150f9c494be11.pngECMOPEU12_168_2.thumb.png.cf3ed9e683a6069ee2890fd5afa0ce77.png

 

Solar Cycles
10 February 2019 19:33:59

It looks like Western Europe is going to see an early taste of spring this week

ECMOPEU12_24_2.thumb.png.af389d890b94bd1550c47b294e321593.pngECMOPEU12_72_2.thumb.png.4446d74e0db630030388fb371e06f8f2.pngECMOPEU12_120_2.thumb.png.3f776f821b11d355903150f9c494be11.pngECMOPEU12_168_2.thumb.png.cf3ed9e683a6069ee2890fd5afa0ce77.png

 

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

Should be pleasant for those locations who see the sun. It’s been a dreary winter with so little in the way of brightness let alone frosts and snow.

Ally Pally Snowman
10 February 2019 19:49:56

It looks like Western Europe is going to see an early taste of spring this week

ECMOPEU12_24_2.thumb.png.af389d890b94bd1550c47b294e321593.pngECMOPEU12_72_2.thumb.png.4446d74e0db630030388fb371e06f8f2.pngECMOPEU12_120_2.thumb.png.3f776f821b11d355903150f9c494be11.pngECMOPEU12_168_2.thumb.png.cf3ed9e683a6069ee2890fd5afa0ce77.png

 

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

 

If we can get some decent sunshine then I'm going for 16c somewhere. 

 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
10 February 2019 20:31:34

Can anyone else feel their ears popping? OK I may have a wax problem

Diagramme GEFS


Rob

In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.

doctormog
10 February 2019 20:40:55

Can anyone else feel their ears popping? OK I may have a wax problem

Diagramme GEFS

Originally Posted by: RobN 

 

Is there a term for Rapid Anticyclogenesis? An “anti bomb”? Yes I know the High is not forming in situ before anyone points it out but that pressure increase for London, and indeed more generally, is very impressive. Perhaps winter 2018/2019 is the winter of the anticyclone?


tallyho_83
10 February 2019 20:57:39

But you can’t just take one or two variables or influences in isolation. There are many others to factor into the equation to give us the big picture, possibly some that we’re not yet aware of and certainly some we don’t fully understand.  

Tally, you’re far more knowledgeable than me when it comes to reading the charts but even I know that the UK weather is very delicately balanced because we’re a small island.

Originally Posted by: Caz 

Which then raises more questions. So we know SSW doesn't guarantee HLB neither does the fact we are entering Solar Minimum but if it's not that then it must be the fact that we have transitioned into a westerly QBO? Maybe that's the factor then?


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)


Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Gandalf The White
10 February 2019 21:06:19

Can anyone else feel their ears popping? OK I may have a wax problem

 

Originally Posted by: RobN 

 Sorry, I didn't quite catch that.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Gandalf The White
10 February 2019 21:09:26

 

The question to ask is what makes person x, y or z an expert? Is it because they use big words (despite not necessarily understanding them) or do they genuinely have years of experience and specialist knowledge? If so, is there empirical evidence to substantiate their claims? IMO we need to be careful not to end up in the land of alchemy.   

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

But don't we have this in your world of alchemy every autumn and winter, with a succession of long-range forecasts and adherence to the latest buzz word/expression?

Is there an emoticon for a large pinch of salt? It would surely come in useful.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



BJBlake
10 February 2019 22:10:03

Since this winter is in fact pre-solar minimum, the stats are consistent with the outcome, a nothing much of anything winter. Just 3 winters were cold in the last 60 years, at this point in the cycle. Next year should statistically be better. 

However we were unlucky with the SSW. the PV split was not favourable to us unlike the direct hit with the beast. 

Looking at this winter, Brian was right to say it was a virtual winter...

now there's a business idea Brian. Take purtabations 7 - what would my garden look like at 384 hours on this run, virtual head set on - and Wow, what a snow storm, the shed is buried under a 10' drift!! I'd buy that piece of kit!!

Lets hope next year we don't need a virtual winter device, but have the real thing...


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
JACKO4EVER
10 February 2019 22:10:22
With regard to long range forecasts- A salient point is that NO ONE is forcing anyone to read them😂

Back to model land, a very noticeable rise in pressure over the near continent will result in almost spring like conditions this week with, I would guess, 15c being easily achievable given clear skies and some sunshine

BJBlake
10 February 2019 22:11:57

Please don't mention the football result today!! LOL


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
Chunky Pea
10 February 2019 23:01:56

Quite right.

Thats what I like about your forecast Brian, no unnecessary big/buzzwords and laid out in laymen’s terms. Too many pseudo experts on various forums preaching to the flock, and those new to this look up at them in awe until it goes t*ts up and they then disappear until the next merry dance comes along.

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 

Spot on SC. 

Difference between an 'expert' and an 'psuedo-experts' is that experts can give as much info, in less ostentatious language, in one or two sentences than the pseudos do in multiple paragraphed, techno-babbled filled posts. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

tallyho_83
10 February 2019 23:08:17

 

We are probably at the equivalent stage to 2007/8 when compared with the last cycle minimum 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Solar_cycle_24_sunspot_number_progression_and_prediction.gif

Although I will emphasise again that I’m not sure there is a direct correlation between SC minimum and northern blocking.

 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Thanks for link - so if this is the case and if we go to to a La Nina albeit weak one as well as an easterly QBO by this Autumn 2019 then combine this with solar minimum then winter 2019/2020 will be the one more conductive to producing HLB. - Similar to like what we had during last solar minimum winters like 08/09 and 09/10. etc.,  


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)


Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

tallyho_83
10 February 2019 23:33:07

JFF - Love the N. Hemisphere view down:

Some very warm air not just for Europe but the USA @ T+99:


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)


Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

tallyho_83
10 February 2019 23:40:51

18Z Ensembles for London:

Remarkably above average in terms of upper temps @850hpa for February, with the coldest only a few degrees below the ensemble mean late in FI! This has to qualify for a WIO thread Brian?


Home Location - Vixen Tor Close, Okehampton, Devon (221m ASL)


Sean Moon

Magical Moon

www.magical-moon.com

Gandalf The White
11 February 2019 00:47:44

I found these stats interesting:

The NAO Index for January came in at +0.59 (NOAA CPC)

The NAO has been:

Negative in 2 of the last 16 months

Negative in 3 of the last 32 Dec-Mar winter months

Negative in 1 of the last 24 Dec-Feb winter months

Positive the last 8 Decembers

Positive the last 8 Januarys

 

https://twitter.com/griteater/status/1094584366695632896?s=21

 


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



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