The Weather Outlook

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Brian Gaze
21 December 2025 12:16:56
There were too many OT posts in the last thread, so a new one is called for! Here are the GEFS 06Z runs at T+300 hours. Let’s see how things develop.

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Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

picturesareme
21 December 2025 12:56:05
I would say on balance it's looking like a 3 day cold'ish snap that probably wouldn't have gotten much notice if it wasn't peaking on Xmas day. 

Afterwards a return to average.. for how long? 

Gandalf The White
21 December 2025 13:03:30

I would say on balance it's looking like a 3 day cold'ish snap that probably wouldn't have gotten much notice if it wasn't peaking on Xmas day. 

Afterwards a return to average.. for how long? 

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 

The GFS 06z ensemble for London suggests a sustained period of cool to cold conditions?

https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=&y=&run=6&ville=Londres&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&runpara=0&type=3&ext=1&dmode=1 


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



Gandalf The White
21 December 2025 13:13:46
The foolhardiness of trying to guess the weather more than 4-5 days ahead is demonstrated beautifully by the ECM 00z ensemble T2m chart

https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/ecmwfens_display.php?x=0&y=0&run=0&ville=Londres&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&type=12&runpara=0&mode=1 

There’s a 6c drop in the mean between tomorrow and Xmas Day, but still a 3c spread on Xmas Day, widening to 4c on Boxing Day.


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



doctormog
21 December 2025 13:21:16

I would say on balance it's looking like a 3 day cold'ish snap that probably wouldn't have gotten much notice if it wasn't peaking on Xmas day. 

Afterwards a return to average.. for how long? 

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 

That’s not really a fair representation of the current output to be honest. It looks below average for much of the time after the next few days (in the south at least).

https://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?x=&y=&run=6&ville=Londres&lat=51.5085&lon=-0.12574&runpara=0&type=3&ext=1

 Beyond then in the (even more) unreliable time frame there are still strong hints of blocking around Greenland and something a bit more wintry. Just an emerging trend at this stage but one to watch.


idj20
21 December 2025 13:23:32
A chilly but dry and sunny day is the more likely outcome which makes a change from the usual mild, damp and windy stuff and there are some further chances of something wintry further on down the line.


Home location: Folkestone Harbour.
Hippydave
21 December 2025 14:00:05
Think I'll wait a little longer before discounting the chances of a flurry on Christmas Day judging by the GEFS:-

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There's a reasonable number of runs that still have that cold pool grazing the far South East/South, with the precip row spike backing this up. I don't think it's a likely outcome but it's still entirely possible and I guess globally we're talking about a tiny adjustment. Will see whether the 12zs continue the uncertainty or move more positively towards a hit or near miss scenario. 

Longer term things remain uncertain but generally the outlook remains cooler than average with 'potential' as others have already stated. One thing looking highly likely is a prolonged spell of largely dry weather, something of a mixed blessing depending on where in the UK you are (IMBYish again, we probably need more wet stuff for a while yet but appreciate most of the UK is now back at normal water levels).


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

Chunky Pea
21 December 2025 14:11:20
EC 1 - 5 day temp anom:

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6 - 10 day:

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11 - 15:

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Nothing notable over the next 10 days, but after that? could be something brewing. But given the timeframe, it could be brewing without the teabag in place. 


Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

BJBlake
21 December 2025 15:24:46
Snow show IMBY for The 2nd Jan - keeps the hope alive....

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=gfs&var=47&time=294&run=6&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=6 

Which is more than this link seems to be! LOL. A bit surprising just how the cold air doesn’t make it to southern Britain despite a persistent NE flow forecast. What does it take to get -10 users to the south these days? Seems Like even in the bleak mid winter, it is still not that likely anymore. The GFS shows the -5 HPa air is struggling to make it into EA, so the snow show seems rather overcooked at this point,.


Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
Hippydave
21 December 2025 15:51:56
Well the Icon glances the far SE and south coast with -5 850s for Xmas day, but the main cold pool remains over France. There is some convection shown to clip the coast of the SW but it's modelled as rain (I guess if it comes inland further than shown it'd be wintry over the moors). 

Thereafter it's a UK HP with mild to very mild uppers (got to love how the mild uppers are all over us, whereas the colder stuff does all it can to avoid us). I'd expect the surface air to be significantly cooler than the uppers suggest, providing limited mixing (and as per the last several days of ens suites I guess). 

GFS next - Edit - and it's a miss, -4 clips Kent and no precip. Doesn't look like anything clips/happens further west either. 

Not a promising start to the 12zs for the Xmas day charts fixation 😂 

Second Edit - close but no cigar on the UKMO but there is some light snow shown late on Xmas eve, just not IMBY. The cold pool grazes MBY and parts of the far south with -8c (ish). 

One thing I've noticed on the various ops is there's a signal for light precip breaking out in Wales ahead of the cold pool coming through. Not anything exciting but potentially sort of interesting for some.

 


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

Hippydave
21 December 2025 16:45:27
Not to entirely monopolise the thread with inane commentary but the GFS run appears to be at a crucial point - so far it looks okay at T240, just need HP to carry on establishing over Greenland and not split a cell down to our SW which appears to be a risk. 

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Steady as she goes for the mid to long term potential. 

Edit - Just had a quick look through the UKMO run and it has the core of the HP further east, so suspect no immediate prospect of retrogression to Greenland, looks more like a slow topple through Scandinavia. Still, the GFS op looks nice!


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

CField
21 December 2025 17:05:28

Not to entirely monopolise the thread with inane commentary but the GFS run appears to be at a crucial point - so far it looks okay at T240, just need HP to carry on establishing over Greenland and not split a cell down to our SW which appears to be a risk. 

UserPostedImage

Steady as she goes for the mid to long term potential. 

Edit - Just had a quick look through the UKMO run and it has the core of the HP further east, so suspect no immediate prospect of retrogression to Greenland, looks more like a slow topple through Scandinavia. Still, the GFS op looks nice!

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 

Great run for model viewing....unusual pattern by its longevity if it comes close...the Newfoundland Low gets totally locked away by a yellow anvil.....1940 phoney war springs to mind....


Favourite snowstorm

Famous channel low

Dec 31st 1978

Hastings East Sussex

Foot of level snow severe drifting

Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius

Brian Gaze
21 December 2025 17:07:44
You pays your money and you takes your choice.

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Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Hippydave
21 December 2025 17:19:36

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

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Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

The AIGFS at T168 is very similar to the UKMO run FWIW, which isn't overly encouraging. I think generally though over recent years the GFS hasn't been bad at spotting Greenie HP signals, albeit sometimes has a false start before a reboot. 

Suspect the ens won't bring much clarity but you never know I guess....


Home: Tunbridge Wells

Work: Tonbridge

Gandalf The White
21 December 2025 17:32:45

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

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Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

If the AI version is essentially pattern matching, how many diffluent blocks will it have in its database?  My guess is next to none, so if the forecasters are saying these features tend to be very stubborn then it won’t be in the ‘script’?


Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E



cultman1
21 December 2025 17:56:55
So what is your take on the eventual outcome Brian? 
Retron
21 December 2025 18:00:06
The 12z GEFS has to be one of the most blocked sets I've ever seen [up to T+300, at least] - the vast majority of ensemble members just keep going and going! The diffluent block becomes an omega block in many of them too, which certainly raises an eyebrow - that's one of the things you'll see in the Scandinavia->Greenland->Scandinavia ping-pong of years gone by. 

EDIT: And by 384 plenty of them have the block collapsing. It's still a fascinating period of model-watching, though, and of course there'll be lots more ups and downs to come!


Leysdown, north Kent
Brian Gaze
21 December 2025 18:40:06

So what is your take on the eventual outcome Brian? 

Originally Posted by: cultman1 

See what the models are looking like in a couple of days is my take. There's a reason the Met don't update their medium - long range forecasts every 6 hours.


Brian Gaze

Berkhamsted

TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 

"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

Bertwhistle
21 December 2025 18:54:29
12z GFS ENS snow row now suggesting Plymouth with 15 positives on 25th-26th.

Not bad.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.

Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.

Bertwhistle
21 December 2025 18:59:22
And in the new year London's 850 mean drops comfortably below -5 for a few days.
Bertie, Itchen Valley.

Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.

Taylor1740
21 December 2025 19:10:45

And in the new year London's 850 mean drops comfortably below -5 for a few days.

Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 

Slightly below -5 for a day or so, though I see a few runs going sub -10 between the 1st and 5th and even the odd one touching -15 for my area. 


NW Leeds - 150m amsl
Chunky Pea
21 December 2025 19:16:41
Interesting, if in a non felt way, that the high could reach 1050 hPa (or possibly a bit more) just after Christmas.

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Edit: More clearly represented on this map from the Icelandic Met Office:

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Patrick,

East Galway, Ireland.

Quantum
21 December 2025 20:12:28
If we end up with a white xmas in Jersey but nowhere else, would that be the first time it has ever happened?


25/26 (850hpa temp) 11 days snow/sleet falling

18/11 (-4) 19/11 (-6) 20/11 (-6) 01/01 (-7) 04/01 (-10) 10/01 (-7) 11/01 (-3) 30/01 (-1) 13/02 (-6) 15/02 (-4) 18/02 (-6)

24/25 10d

18/11 (-6) 19/11 (-6) 23/11 (-2) 22/12 (-5) 04/01 (-5) 05/01 (0)14/02 (0) 15/02 (0)12/03 (-6) 13/03 (-6)

23/24 8d

29/11 (-6) 30/11 (-6) 02/12 (-5) 03/12 (-5) 04/12 (-3) 16/01 (-3) 18/01 (-8)08/02 (-5)

22/23 7d

18/12 (-1)06/03 (-6) 08/03 (-8) 09/03 (-6) 10/03 (-8) 11/03 (-5) 14/03 (-6)

21/22 12d

Polar Low
21 December 2025 21:17:18

The 12z GEFS has to be one of the most blocked sets I've ever seen [up to T+300, at least] - the vast majority of ensemble members just keep going and going! The diffluent block becomes an omega block in many of them too, which certainly raises an eyebrow - that's one of the things you'll see in the Scandinavia->Greenland->Scandinavia ping-pong of years gone by. 

EDIT: And by 384 plenty of them have the block collapsing. It's still a fascinating period of model-watching, though, and of course there'll be lots more ups and downs to come!

Originally Posted by: Retron 

Absolutely Darren, it is

also a good mention of Q comment of the modelling involved in that, years of model watching has taught me ecm really struggles the most with 500 at and around Greenland let alone any link to the possible cross flow.

We don’t get many attacks from the North like we used to but gfs was always terrific at spotting it early.

imo still very much to play for and for the less experienced don’t get to involved in anyone run be it cold or mild it’s trends and potential we want to see at this stage.

After all we have seen  much worse charts at the end of December than we have now 

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
21 December 2025 21:20:43

If we end up with a white xmas in Jersey but nowhere else, would that be the first time it has ever happened?

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I don't know about Christmas but this is 9/1/24 ( a fair bit more than a dusting, I'd say)

https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/news/watch-jersey-dusted-snow-temperatures-fall-below-0/ 

and Bonacina doesn't record snow on the mainland at that date

https://durhamukweather.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/bonacina.html 


War is God's way of teaching Americans geography - Ambrose Bierce

Chichester 12m asl

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