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Gavin D User is suspended until 27/02/2149 23:16:37(UTC)
#81 Posted : 20 February 2012 15:38:14(UTC)

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Posts: 2,667

I have just been looking at the rain fall stats for Darlington from last year and compared them to this year

Rain Fall

January 2011 - 32mm

January 2012 - 27mm

So that's only a difference of 5mm

February 2011 - 65mm

February 2012 - 5mm*

Now that is a huge difference of 60mm which tells its own story and why drought warnings are now been issued

We are on a run of 8 successive day's now without rain fall, and 16 day's in total this month so far.

The only other February which saw very low rain fall recently was way back in 2008 when just 12mm fell, but January had brought 106mm so there was no water issues.

*As of 20/2/2012

Edited by user 20 February 2012 16:48:59(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Caz Offline
#82 Posted : 20 February 2012 15:43:40(UTC)
Caz

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That BBC report says we could expect a hosepipe ban!  That's fine by me, my lawn can dry out but what concerns me most about this region, is the vegetable farmers!  Linking up the resources between water companies will go a long way to solving household shortages but there's nothing anyone can do about filling the boreholes and wells that are used for agriculture.  The only way aquifers will replenish is with a rise in ground water levels from rain!

I'm surrounded by fields that grow potatoes, carrots, onions and sugar beet, all crops that need a lot of water and we just haven't got it.  We do need rain, not that I really want it! 

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Grant's Puffin Cam
Steam Fog Online
#83 Posted : 20 February 2012 15:49:48(UTC)
Steam Fog

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Originally Posted by: Rob K Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Steam Fog Go to Quoted Post
If I remember correctly that was predicting a colder than average winter across the whole of Europe. So as ever I'd treat it with a fair amount of caution.

I'm pretty sure most of Europe will remember this winter as being very cold (even if it was mild at the beginning!)

 

As for the drought, it usually seems to be the case that as soon as it hits the front page of the papers it rains immediately. I remember the last occasion, sitting on the train hearing people laughing about the drought stories as the rain lashed at the windows. Not that a morning's rain does much to alleviate it, but it does a good job of making the stories look silly!



Sure, the first half of February was cold for most if Europe and for many that may be how they remember winter.

But, that has nothing to do with my post.

Sept, Oct, Nov IOD seasonal forecasts suggested overall cold anomalies for winter 11/12 in Western Europe including the UK. In many places in Europe the current 90 day temperature with one week to go is running at +0.5 to +0.9. Even allowing for an average of +/- 0.5 this is mild, not cold. In places where it has been cooler anomalies seem to be running between -0.10 and -0.5 which is still broadly average rather than cold. Hence my point that you might want to treat them with care (not saying that the forecast for spring is wrong mind you).

As for nature balancing out, certainly over the long term it is likely to (hence average) whether this means heavy rain this spring or summer is a little harder to know...
Caz Offline
#84 Posted : 20 February 2012 15:50:26(UTC)
Caz

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Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire, East Midlands

Originally Posted by: Gavin D Go to Quoted Post

I have just been looking at the rain fall stats from last year and compared them to this year

Rain Fall

January 2011 - 32mm

January 2012 - 27mm

So that's only a difference of 5mm

February 2011 - 65mm

February 2012 - 5mm*

Now that is a huge difference of 60mm which tells its own story and why drought warnings are now been issued

We are on a run of 8 successive day's now without rain fall, and 16 day's in total this month so far.

The only other February which saw very low rain fall recently was way back in 2008 when just 12mm fell, but January had brought 106mm so there was no water issues.

*As of 20/2/2012

Gavin, are the stats you're quoting for the whole of England?  The hight risk areas are the East, East Midlands and South East, which are far worse hit than other areas.

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Grant's Puffin Cam
Gavin D User is suspended until 27/02/2149 23:16:37(UTC)
#85 Posted : 20 February 2012 16:48:41(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 25/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,667

Originally Posted by: Caz Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Gavin D Go to Quoted Post

I have just been looking at the rain fall stats from last year and compared them to this year

Rain Fall

January 2011 - 32mm

January 2012 - 27mm

So that's only a difference of 5mm

February 2011 - 65mm

February 2012 - 5mm*

Now that is a huge difference of 60mm which tells its own story and why drought warnings are now been issued

We are on a run of 8 successive day's now without rain fall, and 16 day's in total this month so far.

The only other February which saw very low rain fall recently was way back in 2008 when just 12mm fell, but January had brought 106mm so there was no water issues.

*As of 20/2/2012

Gavin, are the stats you're quoting for the whole of England?  The hight risk areas are the East, East Midlands and South East, which are far worse hit than other areas.

No they are what we have received in Darlington, my post has been edited to reflect that now.

Edited by user 20 February 2012 16:49:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Stormchaser Offline
#86 Posted : 20 February 2012 17:16:50(UTC)
Stormchaser

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If I consider the past six years, to restore the cumulative rainfall to zero requires more in the way of dry weather

Really, though, nature doesn't remember the past, so any 'balancing out' could be years away for all we know, as much as I for one would be surprised if that turned out to be the case.

 

I think that the AMO going negative and hence reducing the input from evaporation of the Atlantic Ocean is producing drier conditions from given setups than we'd expect, with less precipable moisture in the atmosphere which means frontal systems tend to fizzle out more easily for example. Getting a decent thunderstorm is also a considerably rarer occurance I think.

...by the way, if my thinking is wrong, don't hesitate to point it out and, if possible, correct any mistakes!

Homeland: Rural Mid-West Hants Just under 10 miles south of Salisbury (near Fordingbridge). Current location: Homeland
2013's Extremes to Date IMBY:
T-Max: 19.8 7th May | T-Min: -4.7 14th Mar | Wettest Day: 21.0mm 16th Mar | Ice Days: 5 | Days with wind gusts over 60mph: 0 (1 55mph)|Dry 15th Feb-5th March!
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Stormchaser Offline
#87 Posted : 20 February 2012 17:18:41(UTC)
Stormchaser

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Location: West Hants

Originally Posted by: Matty H Go to Quoted Post
Nature has a habit of rebalancing itself. This Spring or Summer will be a washout and levels will be back to manageable levels in a matter of weeks. You watch.

 

...or Nature could do a 1976 and wait until late in the summer.

If that happens, I'll make the most of it, regardless of the consequences regarding water levels.

Homeland: Rural Mid-West Hants Just under 10 miles south of Salisbury (near Fordingbridge). Current location: Homeland
2013's Extremes to Date IMBY:
T-Max: 19.8 7th May | T-Min: -4.7 14th Mar | Wettest Day: 21.0mm 16th Mar | Ice Days: 5 | Days with wind gusts over 60mph: 0 (1 55mph)|Dry 15th Feb-5th March!
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Arctic Hare Offline
#88 Posted : 20 February 2012 17:29:26(UTC)
Arctic Hare

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In these parts, I think we're going to lose either way. I'm obviously simplifying a lot here, but:

Our farmers are unhappy because last summer was so dry, and desperately want a lot more rain.

Our countryside tourism people are unhappy because last summer was so dull, and desperately want a lot more sun.

We really need a summer full of night-time rain followed by blazing daytime sunshine -- but that could be too much to ask for!

David.
Bewdley, Worcs. 90m asl.
Romfordman Offline
#89 Posted : 20 February 2012 17:36:04(UTC)
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Well I'm kinda hoping that if we have to have a dry hot summer, we will at least get some decent thunderstorms.

Haven't seen one of those in a while.

Richard
35m asl

I do not believe in a word that you say, but I will defend with my life, if need be, your right to say it.
Voltaire
Caz Offline
#90 Posted : 20 February 2012 17:44:27(UTC)
Caz

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Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire, East Midlands

The problem with summer rain is it tends to come too much at once onto dry ground so it just runs off and into the sea via rivers.  What we need is a long period of sustained steady rain to top up the aquifers and raise the water table.  Not the kind of weather I relish the thought of really! 

This afternoon has been really dark and dull but not a drop of rain has fallen! 

Edited by user 20 February 2012 17:45:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Grant's Puffin Cam
Gandalf The White Offline
#91 Posted : 20 February 2012 18:44:53(UTC)
Gandalf The White

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Originally Posted by: Caz Go to Quoted Post

The problem with summer rain is it tends to come too much at once onto dry ground so it just runs off and into the sea via rivers.  What we need is a long period of sustained steady rain to top up the aquifers and raise the water table.  Not the kind of weather I relish the thought of really! 

This afternoon has been really dark and dull but not a drop of rain has fallen! 

The problem is Caz that the sort of steady rainfall that we need has to fall between October and March, during the period when vegetation is at its minimum and evaporation rates lowest, allowing the rain to percolate down.  Steady rain in summer helps to reduce irrigation and helps river levels but does nothing much for the water table.

Of course the real problem is that there are too many demands on the water in the south-east quarter, too many people and too much development as well as agriculture.

Location: Watford, Hertfordshire

65m ASL
51.68N, 0.38W

Matty H Offline
#92 Posted : 20 February 2012 18:53:57(UTC)
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Location: Lost

What else I would say is that history suggests the balancing will come sooner rather than later. There aren't many, or any?? examples of prolonged severe drought in this country lasting years? Bear in mind we have had a good 18 months of abnormally dry weather now. I would be surprised if we were still in this drought situation heading into next winter. Who knows though?
Yate, Nr Bristol.
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sunnyramsgate Online
#93 Posted : 20 February 2012 19:10:20(UTC)
sunnyramsgate

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forget spending money on Boris Island the SE needs reservoirs !!!!
Stormchaser Offline
#94 Posted : 20 February 2012 19:23:05(UTC)
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I reckon the prolonged period of low solar activity was at least partly responsible for the more amplified patterns that existed from late 2007 through to mid 2011. This brought about more in the way of extreme weather than usual in many parts of the world (including the exceptional April and September/October warm spells in the UK), with the warm records perhaps enhanced by a bit of climate change (last summer, America was breaking seemingly thousands of high temp records but far fewer low temp records).

 

The more amplified pattern has reduced the Atlantic influence on the UK overall each year from 2009, but this winter it's been more notable again away from the far south. Why we keep seeing high pressure building close to or across the south this winter is something I don't understand much, but I think the distribution of SST anomalies might have had something to do with it.

Homeland: Rural Mid-West Hants Just under 10 miles south of Salisbury (near Fordingbridge). Current location: Homeland
2013's Extremes to Date IMBY:
T-Max: 19.8 7th May | T-Min: -4.7 14th Mar | Wettest Day: 21.0mm 16th Mar | Ice Days: 5 | Days with wind gusts over 60mph: 0 (1 55mph)|Dry 15th Feb-5th March!
Keep Calm and Forecast On
mbrothers Online
#95 Posted : 20 February 2012 22:19:44(UTC)
mbrothers

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the bbc news mentioned moving water from wetter areas to the drought hit areas. here in cornwall our lakes are 70-80% full but how would it be moved? and as all the water companies are privately owned why would south west water for example want to start giving their water away and as customers in the south west pay so much more for their water this might not be too popular either.
the pictures of a near empty reservoir in kent was quite startling especially in february.
newquay
Caz Offline
#96 Posted : 20 February 2012 22:31:24(UTC)
Caz

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Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire, East Midlands

They've talked about building canals and aquaducts to move water around from one district to another.

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Grant's Puffin Cam
Sevendust Online
#97 Posted : 20 February 2012 23:12:32(UTC)
Sevendust

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Originally Posted by: Caz Go to Quoted Post

They've talked about building canals and aquaducts to move water around from one district to another.

Unlikely to happen unless we get serious issues and even then the projects would take years to get underway.

Someone would have to pay for it(guess who)

Dave

Alton - deep in the Hampshire Alps

Bleachy Offline
#98 Posted : 20 February 2012 23:16:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sevendust Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Caz Go to Quoted Post

They've talked about building canals and aquaducts to move water around from one district to another.

Unlikely to happen unless we get serious issues and even then the projects would take years to get underway.

Someone would have to pay for it(guess who)

Apparently they were given money to do that in the 70's but used it for other things. Or so the parents tell me!

Mangotsfield, Bristol UK.
garybournemouth Offline
#99 Posted : 20 February 2012 23:19:43(UTC)
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They should just store the tears shed from the twists and turns in the model output thread over the past few months. 

Bournemouth Town Centre. 30m above sea level. 900 metres from the coast


Romfordman Offline
#100 Posted : 20 February 2012 23:22:52(UTC)
Romfordman

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Originally Posted by: Sevendust Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Caz Go to Quoted Post

They've talked about building canals and aquaducts to move water around from one district to another.

Unlikely to happen unless we get serious issues and even then the projects would take years to get underway.

Someone would have to pay for it(guess who)

If needs must they will do anything if they have to, perhaps they will reconquer scotland and pipe it from there

Richard
35m asl

I do not believe in a word that you say, but I will defend with my life, if need be, your right to say it.
Voltaire
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