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Online Gandalf The White  
#1 Posted : 22 June 2020 22:23:48(UTC)
Gandalf The White

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An article on the BBC website details some very promising developments which increase the power available from batteries, improve their useful lives and, as important, reduce the cost.

 

The first of these was announced just last week when the Chinese battery-maker that supplies most of the major car makers, including Tesla, revealed it had produced the first "million mile battery".  Contemporary Amperex Technology (CATL) says its new battery is capable of powering a vehicle for more than a million miles (1.2 million, to be precise - or 1.9 million km) over a 16-year lifespan.

Having a battery you never need to change is obviously good news for the electric car industry. But longer-lasting batteries are also essential for what's known as "stationary" storage too.
These are the batteries we can attach to wind turbines or solar panels so renewable energy is available when the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing.
Fairly soon you might even want a stationary battery in your home to store cheap off-peak electricity, or to collect the power your own solar panels generate.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53067009

 

Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E

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Offline Roger Parsons  
#2 Posted : 23 June 2020 04:30:31(UTC)
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It's the holy grail of energy management, Gandalf. Vast potential. Thanks for posting that. R.
RogerP

West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire

No county (Lincolnshire) has better churches and worse houses. The poorer sort of people wash their clothes with hog's dung, and burn dried cow's dung for want of better fuel; whence comes the Lincolnshire proverb: "Where the hogs shite soap and the cows shite fire".

Curiosities of Great Britain (c.1780)

Offline DEW  
#3 Posted : 23 June 2020 05:24:00(UTC)
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Interesting possibilities and I hope the technology lives up to expectation - but cynics like me will wait to see these 'terabatteries' in action before cheering.

It has been observed that less snow falls here than any other place of equal extent in the kingdom, occasioned by the shelter of the hills and the warmth of the sea breezes - Alexander Hay, Guide to Chichester, 1805
Online Ulric  
#4 Posted : 23 June 2020 12:44:57(UTC)
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Batteries are interesting. They are all about storage, energy density and controlled release of energy. That makes them different from bombs which are the same but the release of energy is uncontrolled. We are at that stage where batteries are holding sufficient energy to demolish buildings if they fail. I just hope the safety provisions are sufficient.
'' You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere. ''

--Ursula Le Guin

Offline Bugglesgate  
#5 Posted : 23 June 2020 13:59:59(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ulric Go to Quoted Post
Batteries are interesting. They are all about storage, energy density and controlled release of energy. That makes them different from bombs which are the same but the release of energy is uncontrolled. We are at that stage where batteries are holding sufficient energy to demolish buildings if they fail. I just hope the safety provisions are sufficient.

 

Yes, this is a real problem.  Another is fire.  In an accident the  cells can get shorted together, start a fire which damages adjacent cells  .... and so on.  Bloody difficult to put out, chucking water over them is extremely hazardous and foam only works for a time - when it dissipates  the fire just starts up again.   The fumes are  also extremely hazardous.

At our place, the method to deal with a burning Lithium cell is to tip dry sand over it (like they did with phosphorus incendiary devices in the war).   Can't really do that with a car battery or a huge battery used in a stationary backup.

 

 

Edited by user 23 June 2020 14:01:39(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Chris

Between Newbury and Basingstoke

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Offline Rob K  
#6 Posted : 24 June 2020 11:51:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White Go to Quoted Post

 

Fairly soon you might even want a stationary battery in your home to store cheap off-peak electricity, or to collect the power your own solar panels generate.

One of my friends already has one - a Tesla Powerwall. https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

 

Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl.
Online Gandalf The White  
#7 Posted : 24 June 2020 19:51:26(UTC)
Gandalf The White

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Originally Posted by: Rob K Go to Quoted Post

 

One of my friends already has one - a Tesla Powerwall. https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

 

Someone in our family has ordered one to go with his solar panels.  He bought an electric car recently and is planning to have genuinely zero emissions from his driving.

Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E

Online Gandalf The White  
#8 Posted : 24 June 2020 20:11:44(UTC)
Gandalf The White

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Originally Posted by: Ulric Go to Quoted Post
Batteries are interesting. They are all about storage, energy density and controlled release of energy. That makes them different from bombs which are the same but the release of energy is uncontrolled. We are at that stage where batteries are holding sufficient energy to demolish buildings if they fail. I just hope the safety provisions are sufficient.

Yes, but there are risks with everything. A gas leak has the potential to do similar damage to a catastrophic battery failure.  Faulty or old wiring can result in a house fire. 

 

As I've said many times, there are no free lunches when it comes to production, distribution and storage of energy.

Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E

Offline David M Porter  
#9 Posted : 28 June 2020 09:10:07(UTC)
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Location: Lenzie, Kirkintilloch, Glasgow

Not to mention cost.

"Sometimes what we accept as the truth may not be the full story".

Hercule Poirot (David Suchet)

Online idj20  
#10 Posted : 28 June 2020 09:46:29(UTC)
idj20

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Location: Folkestone (near the coast)

Originally Posted by: Ulric Go to Quoted Post
Batteries are interesting. They are all about storage, energy density and controlled release of energy. That makes them different from bombs which are the same but the release of energy is uncontrolled. We are at that stage where batteries are holding sufficient energy to demolish buildings if they fail. I just hope the safety provisions are sufficient.


As a hearing aid user where I get through batteries like nobody's business, I was hoping for a set that could run on a single charge for the rest of my life but at the same time I don't fancy having my head blown to smithereens. 

Online Gandalf The White  
#11 Posted : 28 June 2020 11:13:58(UTC)
Gandalf The White

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Originally Posted by: idj20 Go to Quoted Post



As a hearing aid user where I get through batteries like nobody's business, I was hoping for a set that could run on a single charge for the rest of my life but at the same time I don't fancy having my head blown to smithereens. 

Having succumbed to the inevitable last year, I bought a pair of rechargeable ones. They recharge in a few hours and last 15-16 hours - depending on how much streaming I do (they're Bluetooth enabled).

Not cheap to buy but the almost zero cost of the batteries offsets that.

Location: South Cambridgeshire

130 metres ASL

52.0N 0.1E

Online idj20  
#12 Posted : 28 June 2020 12:02:32(UTC)
idj20

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Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White Go to Quoted Post

 

Having succumbed to the inevitable last year, I bought a pair of rechargeable ones. They recharge in a few hours and last 15-16 hours - depending on how much streaming I do (they're Bluetooth enabled).

Not cheap to buy but the almost zero cost of the batteries offsets that.



That 16 hours recharge thing would just about be borderline useful to me where they probably would run out in late evening. at a time when I like to listen to music, watch a late night film or play on the PC (with volume not too loud) as it is my most "quiet time" with my elderly mother finally asleep in bed.
I get my current standard NHS digital aids and batteries for free and the batteries last up to 2 weeks before needing changing but it does involve a 10 minutes bike ride to a local hospital to get fresh packets (usually enough to last 2 months). However, in the light of the current situation, I decided to order a "bulk" pack from a jungle forest-named web site. It costed £12 but enough to last me at least two years! That'll spare me these hospital visits for quite a while.

Online fairweather  
#13 Posted : 30 June 2020 23:16:55(UTC)
fairweather

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Location: Essex

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White Go to Quoted Post

 

Having succumbed to the inevitable last year, I bought a pair of rechargeable ones. They recharge in a few hours and last 15-16 hours - depending on how much streaming I do (they're Bluetooth enabled).

Not cheap to buy but the almost zero cost of the batteries offsets that.

I got a private rechargeable one via a somewhat fortuitous route (didn't cost me an arm and an ear!) but I find it more of a pain to put it in the pod every night or take the charger with me if away than changing the NHS one every 10 days which takes 10 secs and is a free six month supply from our local library. Both are programmable and I find little difference in performance. But like all things medical - other ears are available !

 

 

Online fairweather  
#14 Posted : 30 June 2020 23:19:03(UTC)
fairweather

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Originally Posted by: idj20 Go to Quoted Post



That 16 hours recharge thing would just about be borderline useful to me where they probably would run out in late evening. at a time when I like to listen to music, watch a late night film or play on the PC (with volume not too loud) as it is my most "quiet time" with my elderly mother finally asleep in bed.
I get my current standard NHS digital aids and batteries for free and the batteries last up to 2 weeks before needing changing but it does involve a 10 minutes bike ride to a local hospital to get fresh packets (usually enough to last 2 months). However, in the light of the current situation, I decided to order a "bulk" pack from a jungle forest-named web site. It costed £12 but enough to last me at least two years! That'll spare me these hospital visits for quite a while.

See my post above - do you not have collection points. I get mine from the local library which is easy to park or walk to. Mind they don't seem to have many bloody books in it these days - all computers and videos!

Offline DEW  
#15 Posted : 01 July 2020 06:24:15(UTC)
DEW

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Originally Posted by: fairweather Go to Quoted Post

 

See my post above - do you not have collection points. I get mine from the local library which is easy to park or walk to. Mind they don't seem to have many bloody books in it these days - all computers and videos!

That could present difficulties here at the moment - the library has been closed since March 23rd. But even though it's the central library for West Sussex, I don't think it acts as a collection point.

It has been observed that less snow falls here than any other place of equal extent in the kingdom, occasioned by the shelter of the hills and the warmth of the sea breezes - Alexander Hay, Guide to Chichester, 1805
Offline Saint Snow  
#16 Posted : 02 July 2020 08:17:30(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: idj20 Go to Quoted Post



As a hearing aid user where I get through batteries like nobody's business, I was hoping for a set that could run on a single charge for the rest of my life but at the same time I don't fancy having my head blown to smithereens. 

 

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