doctormog
18 January 2020 19:38:06
I did notice that the bulbs seem slower here this year. I’m sure some of the snowdrops had flowered by this stage in previous years.
johncs2016
18 January 2020 20:43:16

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


 ... Content removed in order to save space ...



One thing which I like about Gavin P.'s videos is that he will always admit to getting a particular forecast wrong whenever he has done so, and then try to go more into what he thought, went wrong with that and in the case of seasonal and monthly forecasts, this will usually be in a brief but separate video. I don't know of any forecasters out there who would do that, and I'm not even sure that the legendary Michael Fish who is still doing the same sort of stuff over at Netweather these days, would have done that either, especially back in his earlier days with the BBC.


I can see where Gavin P. went wrong with his latest winter forecast though, and he has already recently admitted that this forecast is well and truly bust. As you know, he always gives an NAO forecast every summer, for the following winter based on what the Atlantic SSTs are like in May and in the last such forecast, he went for a weakly negative NAO during this winter.


As it turns out though, the NAO has been consistently positive throughout this winter, having turned positive on around the very first day of the winter. That was therefore, a forecast which he got wrong right away but then as time went on, it didn't take long for the signs of trouble ahead in that regard to appear as the NE Pacific Ocean got a lot warmer.


Every time that this happens, that is always bad news for here during the following winter and that has ended up being the case yet again. That was something which I spelt out quite a lot on this forum during that period. Later on, the Atlantic then eventually turned colder in the wrong areas after being quite warm for a while, and that is probably what resulted in the NAO becoming more positive as that was similar to what had happened a year earlier.


When Gavin P. gave his initial NAO forecast, he probably didn't see that happening and that is probably why he gave what has now, turned out to be that rather incorrect forecast for a weakly negative NAO during this winter. Based on that, Gavin P. might have been thinking that this could be enough to give us a slightly colder than average winter although to be far to Gavin P., a lot of the analogues which he was showing us in his weekly winter update videos were showing that as well.


However, the long-term models even back then were all consistently going for a mild winter and in the end, Gavin P. paid the price for not going along with that. There is probably one other factor which explains that as well, and that is the QBO which is expected to transition towards its easterly phase very soon. If that had already been the case to begin with, that would have favoured a colder winter. However, Gavin P. has always said himself that there is a lag between any change in the QBO, and any effects which that has down in the troposphere where all of the weather action happens. This means that it was always going to be case that the fact that the QBO was starting off in its westerly phase was always going to be the dominant factor here which in this instance, would have favoured a milder winter.


When all of that is taken into consideration, I would have gone for a mild winter at around the time when Gavin P. gave his forecast as I would have listened to what the models were saying, a lot more than what he did. Anyway, one thing which has bugged me a lot about Gav's most recent shorter term forecasts has when he has consistently used the phrase "especially" or "more focused" followed by "England and Wales". This is nothing against Gavin P. himself as anyone else doing those forecasts would just have said the same sort of thing in their own different way. However, that just rubs in the fact that the weather always seems to be more interesting in England and Wales than what it is here in Scotland and that is consistently always the case, that does get on my nerves quite a lot.


That is therefore what led to give my latest comments above, about this latest spell of high pressure and potentially frosty weather because that after all, is something which is mainly affecting England and Wales, whilst not affecting Scotland to anything like the same degree if it does even affect here at all. Yet, the English-biased so-called UK mainstream media will treat that as though it was like that across the entire country due to their unwillingness to understand that the UK does actually extend beyond the southern half of England. That then gets on my nerves even more, especially when the actual reality of the situation up here is completely different from that.


 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
richardabdn
18 January 2020 21:35:42

This is just unbelievable. Pressure up to 1031 mb and still that vile wind rattles away just as it's been doing all day long. Temperature stuck on 4C with zero movement all evening 


When a 1031 mb high produces exactly the same conditions as a 978mb low then you know you are living in just about the most dire, boring and pathetic place on earth for weather


Anywhere else a 978mb low would be producing storms, gales, heavy seas, lashings of rain and a 1031mb high would give frost, calm winds and sunshine you can enjoy being out in. We get the same mind-numbing wind, static temperatures and weak sunshine that you can't enjoy being out in because of the poxy revolting wind. Yes absolutely no difference between todays garbage and Tuesdays garbage under the 978mb low. In fact today seemed windier than several of the horrid windy weekdays. 


Absolutely diabolical and yet another week of sheer torture coming up  We don't need any sort of dry spell let alone anticyclonic gloom. We need frost and snow and an end to this stupefyingly boring non-winter and all we are going to get is an intensification of it   


Aberdeen: The only place that misses out on everything


2023 - The Year that's Constantly Worse than a Bad November
tallyho_83
18 January 2020 23:26:36

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 


 


One thing which I like about Gavin P.'s videos is that he will always admit to getting a particular forecast wrong whenever he has done so, and then try to go more into what he thought, went wrong with that and in the case of seasonal and monthly forecasts, this will usually be in a brief but separate video. I don't know of any forecasters out there who would do that, and I'm not even sure that the legendary Michael Fish who is still doing the same sort of stuff over at Netweather these days, would have done that either, especially back in his earlier days with the BBC.


I can see where Gavin P. went wrong with his latest winter forecast though, and he has already recently admitted that this forecast is well and truly bust. As you know, he always gives an NAO forecast every summer, for the following winter based on what the Atlantic SSTs are like in May and in the last such forecast, he went for a weakly negative NAO during this winter.


As it turns out though, the NAO has been consistently positive throughout this winter, having turned positive on around the very first day of the winter. That was therefore, a forecast which he got wrong right away but then as time went on, it didn't take long for the signs of trouble ahead in that regard to appear as the NE Pacific Ocean got a lot warmer.


Every time that this happens, that is always bad news for here during the following winter and that has ended up being the case yet again. That was something which I spelt out quite a lot on this forum during that period. Later on, the Atlantic then eventually turned colder in the wrong areas after being quite warm for a while, and that is probably what resulted in the NAO becoming more positive as that was similar to what had happened a year earlier.


When Gavin P. gave his initial NAO forecast, he probably didn't see that happening and that is probably why he gave what has now, turned out to be that rather incorrect forecast for a weakly negative NAO during this winter. Based on that, Gavin P. might have been thinking that this could be enough to give us a slightly colder than average winter although to be far to Gavin P., a lot of the analogues which he was showing us in his weekly winter update videos were showing that as well.


However, the long-term models even back then were all consistently going for a mild winter and in the end, Gavin P. paid the price for not going along with that. There is probably one other factor which explains that as well, and that is the QBO which is expected to transition towards its easterly phase very soon. If that had already been the case to begin with, that would have favoured a colder winter. However, Gavin P. has always said himself that there is a lag between any change in the QBO, and any effects which that has down in the troposphere where all of the weather action happens. This means that it was always going to be case that the fact that the QBO was starting off in its westerly phase was always going to be the dominant factor here which in this instance, would have favoured a milder winter.


When all of that is taken into consideration, I would have gone for a mild winter at around the time when Gavin P. gave his forecast as I would have listened to what the models were saying, a lot more than what he did. Anyway, one thing which has bugged me a lot about Gav's most recent shorter term forecasts has when he has consistently used the phrase "especially" or "more focused" followed by "England and Wales". This is nothing against Gavin P. himself as anyone else doing those forecasts would just have said the same sort of thing in their own different way. However, that just rubs in the fact that the weather always seems to be more interesting in England and Wales than what it is here in Scotland and that is consistently always the case, that does get on my nerves quite a lot.


That is therefore what led to give my latest comments above, about this latest spell of high pressure and potentially frosty weather because that after all, is something which is mainly affecting England and Wales, whilst not affecting Scotland to anything like the same degree if it does even affect here at all. Yet, the English-biased so-called UK mainstream media will treat that as though it was like that across the entire country due to their unwillingness to understand that the UK does actually extend beyond the southern half of England. That then gets on my nerves even more, especially when the actual reality of the situation up here is completely different from that.


 



Yes I agree - Gav said many times that the warmer than average SST's across NE Pacific is bad news for us and the SST's in the Atlantic are not favorable for a colder than average winter across western Europe in general so he was correct about that, however all the models pointed to a milder than average winter - so I am still keen to know why he went for a colder than average winter, i would have gone for a milder than average one... although he did mention the best chance of cold would be early in winter or February so there is time. However, he has been unfortunate . I am keen to know why he forecast a negative NAO for the winter 2019/20 when it's been anything but negative? and what relevance has the NAO situation during May which was released early July has to do with how the NAO would be in the winter?? How could he tell that because the NAO was negative back then that it shall be negative in winter? He also spoke about the tripole which we had in May into June - which as you know was wetter than average at times and cooler - he said it would re emerge in October but it never did we had from south of Greenland the 'cold, warm, cold' instead of 'warm, cold, warm!' so the exact opposite of a tripole occurred. Further more the temperatures in the stratosphere went exceptionally cold 1st day of December (winter~) just as both the NAO and AO went exceptionally positive along with the strength of zonal winds 60 N @ 10hpa.


I do enjoy Gav's weather videos and his daily updates are really informative! I look forward to his Sunday round up and also he mentioned that there will be a video on the QBO or a QBO special whether or not this is part of the Gavs weather vid's Sunday round-up I don't know!? But either way I look forward to it.  


SO far Brian your winter forecast has been very accurate.


 Fingers crossed for some cold and snowy weather after middle of February?


Yes right now it's colder in south than in north of UK.


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johncs2016
19 January 2020 00:55:52

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


 


Yes I agree - Gav said many times that the warmer than average SST's across NE Pacific is bad news for us and the SST's in the Atlantic are not favorable for a colder than average winter across western Europe in general so he was correct about that, however all the models pointed to a milder than average winter - so I am still keen to know why he went for a colder than average winter, i would have gone for a milder than average one... although he did mention the best chance of cold would be early in winter or February so there is time. However, he has been unfortunate . I am keen to know why he forecast a negative NAO for the winter 2019/20 when it's been anything but negative? and what relevance has the NAO situation during May which was released early July has to do with how the NAO would be in the winter?? How could he tell that because the NAO was negative back then that it shall be negative in winter? He also spoke about the tripole which we had in May into June - which as you know was wetter than average at times and cooler - he said it would re emerge in October but it never did we had from south of Greenland the 'cold, warm, cold' instead of 'warm, cold, warm!' so the exact opposite of a tripole occurred. Further more the temperatures in the stratosphere went exceptionally cold 1st day of December (winter~) just as both the NAO and AO went exceptionally positive along with the strength of zonal winds 60 N @ 10hpa.


I do enjoy Gav's weather videos and his daily updates are really informative! I look forward to his Sunday round up and also he mentioned that there will be a video on the QBO or a QBO special whether or not this is part of the Gavs weather vid's Sunday round-up I don't know!? But either way I look forward to it.  


SO far Brian your winter forecast has been very accurate.


 Fingers crossed for some cold and snowy weather after middle of February?


Yes right now it's colder in south than in north of UK.



Another point is why can't Scotland get some interesting weather for a change (absolutely nothing of interest has happened here since we had those thunderstorms during last summer), and why does all of the interesting weather HAVE to be down south all the time? You correctly mentioned just how poor this so-called "winter" has been for air frosts in your neck of the woods and yet, you live in the SW of England which should actually be one of the mildest parts of the UK on average during the winter, anyway. That is therefore, not a location which we would normally associate with cold weather at this time of the year.


Yet, I live in Scotland which is much further north, and which should be a lot colder on average as a result. Therefore, the fact that we have had so few frosts in this part of the world (yes, that has amounted to just one or two of them here as well, so far) during this winter and not even a single flake of snow at lower levels, surely means that the situation is actually worse here on that front than what it is where you are.


At the moment, this spell of weather which we are getting just now is almost like the exact polar opposite of the southerners getting a lot of wind and rain, along with cooler temperatures during the summer whilst Scotland basks in temperatures of over 30°C, and that is just absolutely ridiculous!!


 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
Andy Woodcock
19 January 2020 01:44:04
I don't believe the posters that say they aren't bothered about cold and snow anymore, really? I don't think so!

Let's be honest, once you have the snow bug there is no cure, you will always be glued to the models looking for the next snow chance, you may tell yourself and others that you have given up the chase but secretly you look at the models every day even if you don't post on the forums.

I am the same, being retired now I spend weeks at a time in Southern Spain and under this huge Bartlett High the weather has been glorious, but twice a day I view the models and internet discussions ready to jump on a plane should a UK cold spell be imminent.

It's a curse I have always had and always will, there is no escape, so next time I read lines like 'I don't care it's only weather' I think,, yeah right, see you for the early morning runs tomorrow........

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Plumpton
Penrith
Cumbria
Altitude 435 feet
"I survived The Mega Bartlett Winter of 2015/16 With My Mental Health Just About Intact"
Andy Woodcock
19 January 2020 01:54:47

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


 


Yes I agree - Gav said many times that the warmer than average SST's across NE Pacific is bad news for us and the SST's in the Atlantic are not favorable for a colder than average winter across western Europe in general so he was correct about that, however all the models pointed to a milder than average winter - so I am still keen to know why he went for a colder than average winter, i would have gone for a milder than average one... although he did mention the best chance of cold would be early in winter or February so there is time. However, he has been unfortunate . I am keen to know why he forecast a negative NAO for the winter 2019/20 when it's been anything but negative? and what relevance has the NAO situation during May which was released early July has to do with how the NAO would be in the winter?? How could he tell that because the NAO was negative back then that it shall be negative in winter? He also spoke about the tripole which we had in May into June - which as you know was wetter than average at times and cooler - he said it would re emerge in October but it never did we had from south of Greenland the 'cold, warm, cold' instead of 'warm, cold, warm!' so the exact opposite of a tripole occurred. Further more the temperatures in the stratosphere went exceptionally cold 1st day of December (winter~) just as both the NAO and AO went exceptionally positive along with the strength of zonal winds 60 N @ 10hpa.


I do enjoy Gav's weather videos and his daily updates are really informative! I look forward to his Sunday round up and also he mentioned that there will be a video on the QBO or a QBO special whether or not this is part of the Gavs weather vid's Sunday round-up I don't know!? But either way I look forward to it.  


SO far Brian your winter forecast has been very accurate.


 Fingers crossed for some cold and snowy weather after middle of February?


Yes right now it's colder in south than in north of UK.



To be fair to Gavin the MetO used the May SST and NAO profile as an indication of the likely NAO state for the following winter up until a few years ago.


I always thought it was bollocks and ultimately it led to their famous mild winter forecast for 2009/10.


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Plumpton
Penrith
Cumbria
Altitude 435 feet
"I survived The Mega Bartlett Winter of 2015/16 With My Mental Health Just About Intact"
Foghorn
19 January 2020 04:08:16
Weather in north Northumberland similar to Aberdeen -bluish skies but relentless westerlies keeping frost well away and rendering the days unpleasantly chilly - still no sign ahead of anything but more westerlies!
KevBrads1
19 January 2020 06:57:59

It comes to something that I have had more days with thunder than days with falling sleet/snow this winter


 


MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
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johncs2016
19 January 2020 09:25:08

Finally, we got a frost this morning here in Edinburgh, although across all of my three local stations, it was only at the botanic gardens in Edinburgh where an official air frost was actually recorded.

However, that got me wishing that we could only have got the sort of synoptic setup during last summer, which we are seeing just now instead of what we actually got back then which was low pressure sitting right over here a lot of the time and producing massive amounts of rain, whilst it sat underneath what was the sort of strong Greenland High which we could have done with seeing just now.

Had we got that sort of synoptic setup during the summer which we have just now, the fact that the high pressure is centred a little bit to our south would have ensured that the best weather from that would have been here in SE Scotland due to any drift of air being from the west and therefore, blowing offshore in this part of the world. With that, it would probably have been sunny during the day and warm to hot with the temperatures probably getting up to around 25°C or even higher in this part of the world.

This is therefore, yet another example of the wrong synoptic setup occurring at the wrong time of year which is just like the thing and although we can at least be thankful for that rare air frost which is far more than what we have been getting throughout most of this winter, I would much rather be getting some snow here as a result of the high pressure being centred to our north or west instead of right on top of us.


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
AJ*
  • AJ*
  • Advanced Member
19 January 2020 10:56:53

Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


I suppose as long as it's winter and we're moaning, anything goes... I used to think it was a thread for moaning about winter itself.


Winter this year has felt more miserable than I can remember since 1995-6. The spring bulbs are slow to up, despite the mild weather (except the fire station daffs; yawn, yawn.) There have been precious few of the customary seasonal lies spun out by the GFS ENS (these only hurt for a day or two when they don't fruit; this year, the members dipping their toes in the -10 850 line have quickly withdrawn them with a shiver). The news is full of misery and the sun has struggled to stay out since September. 


Then again- I haven't been eating herrings. 



I reckon that taking vitamin D supplements in winter is a good idea, especially if combined with omega-3 fatty acids, as can be found in many cod liver oil capsules.  The main source of vitamin D in humans is from the action of sunlight on the skin, and I read a medical opinion which said that most people in the UK are probably deficient in vitamin D by the end of the winter because of our low-sunlight winter climate.


 


Originally Posted by: Bolty 

Nice to see that the evenings are now getting a bit lighter. It was definitely noticeable on a clearer night like tonight. Hopefully proper spring isn't too far away, though I'd imagine those in the south will argue it's been here for weeks.


Is it time for a 'Signs of Spring' thread?  I could have been contributing from a couple of weeks ago.  The buds on my loganberry canes have started to fill out (at least 4 weeks early) and the wild honeysuckle in my hedge has been putting out lots of new leaves recently.


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Tonbridge, 40m (131ft) asl
ARTzeman
19 January 2020 11:28:22

Originally Posted by: AJ* 


 


I reckon that taking vitamin D supplements in winter is a good idea, especially if combined with omega-3 fatty acids, as can be found in many cod liver oil capsules.  The main source of vitamin D in humans is from the action of sunlight on the skin, and I read a medical opinion which said that most people in the UK are probably deficient in vitamin D by the end of the winter because of our low-sunlight winter climate.


 


 


Is it time for a 'Signs of Spring' thread?  I could have been contributing from a couple of weeks ago.  The buds on my loganberry canes have started to fill out (at least 4 weeks early) and the wild honeysuckle in my hedge has been putting out lots of new leaves recently.


I don't Know about signs of spring!    My Nuts Are Frozen   on the bird feeding station.....






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Others just get wet.
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Joe Bloggs
19 January 2020 11:39:07

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

I don't believe the posters that say they aren't bothered about cold and snow anymore, really? I don't think so!

Let's be honest, once you have the snow bug there is no cure, you will always be glued to the models looking for the next snow chance, you may tell yourself and others that you have given up the chase but secretly you look at the models every day even if you don't post on the forums.

I am the same, being retired now I spend weeks at a time in Southern Spain and under this huge Bartlett High the weather has been glorious, but twice a day I view the models and internet discussions ready to jump on a plane should a UK cold spell be imminent.

It's a curse I have always had and always will, there is no escape, so next time I read lines like 'I don't care it's only weather' I think,, yeah right, see you for the early morning runs tomorrow........

Andy


You can say and suspect what you like, but I’m genuinely not as bothered this year. 


Not entirely sure why but I think it’s partly because of the overly political December we had, and the general feeling of doom about climate change. 

Which is a bit silly as there has been plenty of very cold air in the far north this winter, just haven’t had the synoptics to deliver the cold further south. 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Brian Gaze
19 January 2020 11:47:30

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


 


To be fair to Gavin the MetO used the May SST and NAO profile as an indication of the likely NAO state for the following winter up until a few years ago.


I always thought it was bollocks and ultimately it led to their famous mild winter forecast for 2009/10.


Andy



I was under the impression they still use it but I could be wrong. It isn't a "fashionable" indicator at the moment because of all the hype around the stratosphere. Give it time and things will shift again. That is the only long range forecast I am completely confident in making.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Chunky Pea
19 January 2020 12:03:19

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

I don't believe the posters that say they aren't bothered about cold and snow anymore, really? I don't think so!

Andy


It is genuine with me anyway. Even during the 'Storm Emma' blizzard a couple of years back (is it that long ago already?) while amazing to see, failed to have the same impact on me than it would have even 5 years ago.  As others have said, perhaps this is down to the dark political climate of the last few years beginning to take its toll, I don't know, but I still have that toddleresque excitement that I have always had when I hear the first growls an approaching thunderstorm, so that is still there at least! 


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richardabdn
19 January 2020 14:33:57

This atrocious weekend illustrates why this has become the most infuriating, soul destroying and depressing place on earth for a weather enthusiast over the past decade. Sunny yesterday but with a nasty appalling wind that held the temperature up all evening. Today the wind has finally gone only to be replaced by a toxic gloomfest with full cloud cover 


While the temperature did eventually go below freezing overnight there was no evidence of the frost by dawn by which time it was already above zero as is often the case in Spring but not mid-winter


Can't get sunshine with light winds, can't get frost, can't get snow. What the hell can we get? Absolutely nothing that anyone would want that's for sure. Utterly horrific 11C Atlantic gunk forecast tomorrow and all week. This catastrophe of a winter can't get anything right. It's just a relentless onslaught of complete and utter GARBAGE 


Aberdeen: The only place that misses out on everything


2023 - The Year that's Constantly Worse than a Bad November
Retron
19 January 2020 15:49:29

The middle of winter in Berkshire, daffodils and primroses in flower. This was taken yesterday morning...



Leysdown, north Kent
johncs2016
19 January 2020 18:22:50

Well, would you believe it!?


We are currently sitting under a monster area of high pressure which has increased the pressure at Edinburgh Gogarbank to more than 1042mb yet even with that, our so-called "weather" has still managed to create a situation here where too much cloud and too much wind during this evening is resulting in the temperatures refusing to drop yet again, as our winter borefest goes on.


I really give up now!!


 


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
DPower
19 January 2020 19:39:41
Can not believe the scrutiny of an amateur forecasters long range forecast for winter 19/20 which in all probability will be wrong 99 times out of 100. Even these so called experts on various forums here and across the pond regularly miss by a country mile that includes updates when they are half way through the season in question. J Cohen has been trying to stick pins in the donkeys tail all winter so far.
As far as sst's go May screamed of a +NAO and it is these surface conditions according to the Met that are expected to re-surface in the winter. This has been the case this winter despite a nice - NAO tripole setting up in the Autumn. I myself think there are far bigger drivers involved than Atlantic sst's although they probably do play a part.
Have to keep pinching myself that this is meant to be winter. What a disappointment especially after many thought we were robbed of something special last winter and then for the weather gods to deliver this dirge to our shores this winter. Another 6 weeks and thats winter done for another 9 months. February could deliver but it would have to be something extremely special to erase the first 6 weeks of so called winter 19/20
Rob K
20 January 2020 08:41:58

Originally Posted by: ARTzeman 


I don't Know about signs of spring!    My Nuts Are Frozen   on the bird feeding station.....



Maybe you should have done your dressing gown up before venturing out to refill it?


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
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