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Online Col  
#901 Posted : 29 July 2019 17:16:16(UTC)
Col

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Location: Bolton 160m asl

Originally Posted by: johncs2016 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, I think that this was a record which deserved to stand.

Having said that though, I don't really see this as a reason to celebrate and if anything, I would be rather concerned about just how often these highest temperature records are being broken these days.

Whilst we can't say that any particular record being broken is down to climate change, the fact that these records are being beaten on such a regular basis means that climate change has to be playing a significant part in that. For that reason, this makes very concerned about our overall future here on this planet.

Breaking a major record, especially one as fundamental as this is always 'exciting' but I do take your point. 30 years ago the highest ever UK temperature stood at 36.7C, a record that had itself stood since 1911. Now in that 30 years the record has been broken 3 times and the absolute record raised by 2 whole degrees. In an essentially stable climate with a temperature record 150+ years long the absolute record should be beaten increasingly rarely, not suddenly 3 times in the past 30 years. This doesn't mean that average temps have risen 2C since 1989, of course they haven't but it seem to indicate that extremes are becoming more frequent, which is just what has been advocated by climate change.

Edited by user 29 July 2019 17:22:44(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Col

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Snow videos:

http://www.youtube.com/c...UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg

Offline David M Porter  
#902 Posted : 29 July 2019 17:25:23(UTC)
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Didn't the famous 1976 summer record what at the time was a new record for the highest ever temperature recorded in the UK, or did it merely equal the record from 1911?

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Offline Nick Gilly  
#903 Posted : 29 July 2019 17:30:04(UTC)
Nick Gilly

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Originally Posted by: David M Porter Go to Quoted Post

Didn't the famous 1976 summer record what at the time was a new record for the highest ever temperature recorded in the UK, or did it merely equal the record from 1911?

 

IIRC 1976 has the joint record for the highest ever June temperature (35.6C), but I forget what other year it happened in. That was it AFAIK, for a single record, although 14 consecutive days of 32C or greater being recorded somewhere in the UK had never happened before this, or since. I have a feeling that may change in the near future though.

Online Col  
#904 Posted : 29 July 2019 17:33:36(UTC)
Col

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Location: Bolton 160m asl

Originally Posted by: David M Porter Go to Quoted Post

Didn't the famous 1976 summer record what at the time was a new record for the highest ever temperature recorded in the UK, or did it merely equal the record from 1911?

The highest temperature that summer was 'only' 35.9C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_British_Isles_heat_wave

What is remarkable about 1976 (other than the drought of course) was the sheer persistance of the heat, most especially in the late June/early July heatwave. I don't think any heatwave since has come even close to equaling that.

Edited by user 29 July 2019 17:35:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Col

Bolton, Lancashire

160m asl

Snow videos:

http://www.youtube.com/c...UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg

Offline David M Porter  
#905 Posted : 29 July 2019 17:35:49(UTC)
David M Porter

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Originally Posted by: Nick Gilly Go to Quoted Post

 

 

IIRC 1976 has the joint record for the highest ever June temperature (35.6C), but I forget what other year it happened in. That was it AFAIK, for a single record, although 14 consecutive days of 32C or greater being recorded somewhere in the UK had never happened before this, or since. I have a feeling that may change in the near future though.

That could well have happened in 2018 as the heat and sunshine during June and July (especially late June & early July) last year were much more prolonged than they have ever been this summer thus far. As I said earlier in reply to Kevin's post, last week's heatwave, for all it was so notable, only ended up being a transient event rather like the one that gave us the then highest July temp on record back in early July 2015.

Edited by user 29 July 2019 19:05:02(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"Sometimes what we accept as the truth may not be the full story".

Hercule Poirot (David Suchet)

Offline TimS  
#906 Posted : 29 July 2019 18:38:22(UTC)
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Notable that both 2015 and 2019 have been summers of intense heat and drought on the near continent (France and Benelux) whereas 2013 and to some extent 2018 were less remarkable in France with the centre of high pressure further north. That said 2018 was still pretty hot for France and the U.K. still got 35C.
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Online Gandalf The White  
#907 Posted : 29 July 2019 18:43:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Col Go to Quoted Post

 

The highest temperature that summer was 'only' 35.9C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_British_Isles_heat_wave

What is remarkable about 1976 (other than the drought of course) was the sheer persistance of the heat, most especially in the late June/early July heatwave. I don't think any heatwave since has come even close to equaling that.

There is a link between the drought conditions and the sustained heat. I remember from that time the forecasters explaining that there was more energy available to raise temperatures because energy wasn't being for evaporation due to the lack of moisture in the ground.

Location: South Cambridgeshire

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Offline Polar Low  
#908 Posted : 29 July 2019 18:58:54(UTC)
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Hello Peter, that must be some form of conductance, or reduced energy transfer from the dryer soil in 1976? I always remember the little #heat# whirl winds in the afternoon.

 

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White Go to Quoted Post

 

There is a link between the drought conditions and the sustained heat. I remember from that time the forecasters explaining that there was more energy available to raise temperatures because energy wasn't being for evaporation due to the lack of moisture in the ground.

Online Col  
#909 Posted : 29 July 2019 19:05:08(UTC)
Col

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Location: Bolton 160m asl

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White Go to Quoted Post

 

There is a link between the drought conditions and the sustained heat. I remember from that time the forecasters explaining that there was more energy available to raise temperatures because energy wasn't being for evaporation due to the lack of moisture in the ground.

And was perhaps most of the heat 'home grown'? That is there wes no great continental furnace that year that the UK could tap into if winds turned favourable for that. So the summer was characterised by more consistent low to mid 30s heat rather than short pulses to 37/38C.

Col

Bolton, Lancashire

160m asl

Snow videos:

http://www.youtube.com/c...UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg

Offline Polar Low  
#910 Posted : 29 July 2019 19:29:47(UTC)
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I agree, also I can always remember the size of the cracks in the soil here in s/e

Taken from a report 

The effect of the summer was huge. Drinks, ice cream, barbecue, and bikini sales rocketed during the summer but the greatest impact was the lack of water. Reservoirs were drying up and the Government launched meaures to conserve water. People were advised to share baths, to use the bath water to water the garden, to place bricks in toilet cisterns to conserve water. Standpipes were launched and many parts of the UK had no running water for much of the day. The drought caused forest and heath fires in the south and fireman were unable to control these because of a lack of water. Gardens and parks were brown and parched. The Government created a minister for drought, Denis Howell, such was the serious nature of the drought. The ministry was created just as the heavy rains came to replenish the reservoirs.

 

xquote=Col;1131400]

 

The highest temperature that summer was 'only' 35.9C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_British_Isles_heat_wave

What is remarkable about 1976 (other than the drought of course) was the sheer persistance of the heat, most especially in the late June/early July heatwave. I don't think any heatwave since has come even close to equaling that.

Offline Stormchaser  
#911 Posted : 29 July 2019 19:34:08(UTC)
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Really interesting final point in the Met Office article - that the source regions for our hot airmasses have seen more climatic warming than the UK. Considering that this warming can then be focused across a smaller region by dynamic forcing to further increase the anomalies, perhaps it's no wonder that we're breaking records from large imports of hot air lasting only 1-3 days, as opposed to an unusually long day-on-day heat build across the UK (the old July record pre-2015, set during exceptionally prolonged anticyclonic conditions in 1976) and/or Europe (exceptionally lengthy 2003 heatwave) that those old records were the result of.

 

Briefly on the models for 1st half Aug - I'm of the expectation that they're leading us up the garden path with another round of bias toward shifting the mean trough east when it'll actually stay west. We'll see if that bears fruit for the third time this summer... what if there's an inverse to 'third time's the charm'?   

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Offline Hungry Tiger  
#912 Posted : 29 July 2019 19:55:56(UTC)
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Well pleased my home city recorded it and it's been confirmed.

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Offline John Mason  
#913 Posted : 29 July 2019 20:13:50(UTC)
John Mason

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Originally Posted by: Stormchaser Go to Quoted Post

Really interesting final point in the Met Office article - that the source regions for our hot airmasses have seen more climatic warming than the UK. Considering that this warming can then be focused across a smaller region by dynamic forcing to further increase the anomalies, perhaps it's no wonder that we're breaking records from large imports of hot air lasting only 1-3 days, as opposed to an unusually long day-on-day heat build across the UK (the old July record pre-2015, set during exceptionally prolonged anticyclonic conditions in 1976) and/or Europe (exceptionally lengthy 2003 heatwave) that those old records were the result of.

 

Briefly on the models for 1st half Aug - I'm of the expectation that they're leading us up the garden path with another round of bias toward shifting the mean trough east when it'll actually stay west. We'll see if that bears fruit for the third time this summer... what if there's an inverse to 'third time's the charm'?   

 

That's kind of the impression I'm getting. North Africa has warmed by more than a lot of the planet (by a couple of degrees as opposed to around one) and the short but intense heatwaves we've seen this year (including that remarkable late February one) have tended to feature direct advection-paths from that general region. Certainly worth looking out for repeats of the same synop pattern to see if similar results occur.

Offline Bellevarde  
#914 Posted : 29 July 2019 20:29:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: james Go to Quoted Post

I've just been down there, here's a pic taken this morning:

http://web.yurgn31.50mail.com/botanic.jpeg

No big bushes or poly-tunnels this month, but plenty of bare soil.

I don't know how tall the tree is on the top left but the screen is supposed to be twice the distance away from the object as the objects height. Also cannot believe the amount of bare soil in close proximity. Also the tell tale signs of human activity with the large "metal" wheelbarrow in close proximity. Seems like a nonsense to me but just my opinion.

Online four  
#915 Posted : 29 July 2019 20:42:09(UTC)
four

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It's a sheltered little garden plot with a warm micro-climate, an accurate station should have it's only little enclosure with grass below and none of those sheltering trees and buildings so close by.

I can imagine the billowing waves of heat coming off that dry soil where it looks like they lifted potatoes or something.

Offline John Mason  
#916 Posted : 29 July 2019 20:53:23(UTC)
John Mason

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Originally Posted by: four Go to Quoted Post
It's a sheltered little garden plot with a warm micro-climate, an accurate station should have it's only little enclosure with grass below and none of those sheltering trees and buildings so close by.
I can imagine the billowing waves of heat coming off that dry soil where it looks like they lifted potatoes or something.

 

You can, but imagination works both ways. I can just imagine Victor Meldrew repeating, "I don't believe it"!

Offline Hungry Tiger  
#917 Posted : 30 July 2019 13:15:57(UTC)
Hungry Tiger

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I'll give you some info about the Cambridge Botanical Gardens.

 

The Cambridge University Botanical Garden covers an area of 16 hectares (40 acres). The site is almost entirely on level ground and in addition to its scientific value, the garden is highly rated by gardening enthusiasts. It holds a plant collection of more than 8000 plant species from all over the world to facilitate teaching and research. The Botanical Garden was created for the University of Cambridge in 1831 by Professor John Stevens Henslow who was Charles Darwin's mentor and it was opened to the public in 1846. It's an impressive place by any standards. It's website is here.

 

https://www.botanic.cam.ac.uk/

 

I have been round the gardens - although quite a long time ago now.

 

Gavin S.

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Online Devonian  
#918 Posted : 30 July 2019 14:08:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: four Go to Quoted Post
It's a sheltered little garden plot with a warm micro-climate, an accurate station should have it's only little enclosure with grass below and none of those sheltering trees and buildings so close by.
I can imagine the billowing waves of heat coming off that dry soil where it looks like they lifted potatoes or something.

There's rumour going around that there are several air con vents nearby (well, maybe not, but give it time). And, apparently, the botanic gardens are just 35 km (!) from all the aircraft exhausts at Stanstead - imagine that, shockingly close! That's several other reasons to doubt the record

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Offline Gary L  
#919 Posted : 30 July 2019 15:15:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Devonian Go to Quoted Post

 

There's rumour going around that there are several air con vents nearby (well, maybe not, but give it time). And, apparently, the botanic gardens are just 35 km (!) from all the aircraft exhausts at Stanstead - imagine that, shockingly close! That's several other reasons to doubt the record

I also heard the sun was out that day. Not good!

Offline james  
#920 Posted : 30 July 2019 17:00:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Quantum Go to Quoted Post

Cambridge airport showing 38C

So I guess at least 37.5C

 

 

I have now confirmed that the figure used for the Cambridge Airport 38C METAR was 38.2 before rounding.

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