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Online Devonian  
#41 Posted : 27 May 2019 20:06:28(UTC)
Devonian

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Location: East Dartmoor

Originally Posted by: Justin W Go to Quoted Post

Ash dieback has been here in our part of Kent for eight years. We have many dying or dead ash trees around us including one semi mature one in our garden and another mature ash which must be about 100 years old. It is ripping through the ash population of Kent at alarming speed.

However, there are a number of trees which appear to be resisting it. Most of them are mature and I've noticed have a darker green leaf and thicker foliage than those which are dying. Will these different types of ash survive? I don't know. But many of them are among dying ash trees and seem to be in full leaf without any sign of the 'antlers' of denuded branches and twigs. I estimate that these darker green ash trees represent about 20% of the stock round here.

I'm not convinced that dieback will take more than about 80% but we shall see. It is heartbreaking - two native tree species threatened with wipeout within my lifetime.

PS - We have four mature elm trees in our lane - we don't know how they have avoided DED.

I share you sentiments. I can see a number dead ash trees around, many more dying and some resisting. It will take longer for big old trees to die and the hope is they (or others) can resist the disease. As I said I've heard people say they'll all die and others say only 3/4 will - I hope it's the latter. We shall see but it's just another example of thoughtless, or is it ignorant, actions that have profound consequences.

Roger, I totally agree with you about our native plants - they're adapted for here. Otoh, if 'you know what' happens as it seems to be here wont be here any more...

 

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way"

Nigel Farage, Daily Mirror, 16/5/2016

"I think the mistake the government made - led by Theresa May - from the start was to try and claim that a country that had voted 17 million to leave the EU, 16 million to stay, wanted a 100% Brexit"

Osborne, 22/12/18.

Offline Roger Parsons  
#42 Posted : 27 May 2019 20:26:38(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Devonian Go to Quoted Post

I share you sentiments. I can see a number dead ash trees around, many more dying and some resisting. It will take longer for big old trees to die and the hope is they (or others) can resist the disease. As I said I've heard people say they'll all die and others say only 3/4 will - I hope it's the latter. We shall see but it's just another example of thoughtless, or is it ignorant, actions that have profound consequences.

Roger, I totally agree with you about our native plants - they're adapted for here. Otoh, if 'you know what' happens as it seems to be here wont be here any more...

Evening, Dev. What I have observed in Lincolnshire is that native elms, for example those in hedgerows, responded by dying back and surviving as shrubs rather than trees - i.e. as young wood. Thus they are hanging on and presumably any that have the ability to develop some kind of resistance may show that in time. Meantime they continue to act as a food plant for their associated insects - so all is not lost - other than the stunning beauty of a mature English Elm, of course.

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/visiting-woods/trees-woods-and-wildlife/british-trees/common-non-native-trees/english-elm/

The surviving Wych Elm tree I mentioned to Justin had White-letter Hairstreaks on it.

https://butterfly-conservation.org/butterflies/white-letter-hairstreak

Pi55ing down here again. Great!

Roger

RogerP

West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire

No county (Lincolnshire) has better churches and worse houses. The poorer sort of people wash their clothes with hog's dung, and burn dried cow's dung for want of better fuel; whence comes the Lincolnshire proverb: "Where the hogs shite soap and the cows shite fire".

Curiosities of Great Britain (c.1780)

Online Devonian  
#43 Posted : 27 May 2019 20:35:38(UTC)
Devonian

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Location: East Dartmoor

Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons Go to Quoted Post

 

Evening, Dev. What I have observed in Lincolnshire is that native elms, for example those in hedgerows, responded by dying back and surviving as shrubs rather than trees - i.e. as young wood. Thus they are hanging on and presumably any that have the ability to develop some kind of resistance may show that in time. Meantime they continue to act as a food plant for their associated insects - so all is not lost - other than the stunning beauty of a mature English Elm, of course.

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/visiting-woods/trees-woods-and-wildlife/british-trees/common-non-native-trees/english-elm/

The surviving Wych Elm tree I mentioned to Justin had White-letter Hairstreaks on it.

https://butterfly-conservation.org/butterflies/white-letter-hairstreak

Pi55ing down here again. Great!

Roger

As I understand it (or is it guess it?), the elms survive until they are big enough that their bark is thick/dense/old enough for the beetles to get into/under whatever and the tree be reinfected But, thinking about it..., if the disease initially got into the trees (and that date would be 1975/76 around here) why didn't it get into the roots and actually kill the whole tree/s outright? I don't know...

Rain, let alone heavy rain? What is that? I think there was a drop or two earlier actually - not even .2mm...When I was a lad I swear it used to rain for hours on end, even days on end...

Edit: hang, you said it perhaps, 'young wood'. Note to self: remember, read posts twice before replying Peter.

Edited by user 27 May 2019 20:41:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way"

Nigel Farage, Daily Mirror, 16/5/2016

"I think the mistake the government made - led by Theresa May - from the start was to try and claim that a country that had voted 17 million to leave the EU, 16 million to stay, wanted a 100% Brexit"

Osborne, 22/12/18.

Offline Roger Parsons  
#44 Posted : 28 May 2019 06:10:50(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz Go to Quoted Post

I would modestly rate myself as being good at tree identification. However, I'll be honest and say that I would struggle to tell one from another - despite being large or small leaved, their leaf sizes don't look all that different to me! As there are no lime woods in Ireland, all that we see here are planted limes, which are invariably the common lime.

As a matter of interest, does the common lime set viable seed? I assume not given that it's a hybrid?

This website is quite good on ID, Lionel.

https://www.woodlands.co.uk/blog/tree-identification/lime/

https://www.woodlands.co.uk/blog/tree-identification/small-leaved-lime/

Roger

 

RogerP

West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire

No county (Lincolnshire) has better churches and worse houses. The poorer sort of people wash their clothes with hog's dung, and burn dried cow's dung for want of better fuel; whence comes the Lincolnshire proverb: "Where the hogs shite soap and the cows shite fire".

Curiosities of Great Britain (c.1780)

Offline Justin W  
#45 Posted : 28 May 2019 06:33:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons Go to Quoted Post

 

Are they the usual elms or Ulmus glabra, the wych elm, Justin?

We had one of those which seemed resistant to DED.

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/visiting-woods/trees-woods-and-wildlife/british-trees/a-z-of-uk-native-trees/wych-elm/

Roger

Hi Roger. They are definitely Ulmus minor 'Atinia'

Offline Roger Parsons  
#46 Posted : 28 May 2019 06:51:02(UTC)
Roger Parsons

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Originally Posted by: Justin W Go to Quoted Post

Hi Roger. They are definitely Ulmus minor 'Atinia'

Good morning, Justin.

I'll see what evidence of  DED resistance or recovery I can find out from my botanist mates. I'll be seeing some of them next week.

In the 70s we used to live in S. Cambs looking out on an avenue of magnificent mature Elms in parkland. I revisited the village 20+ years later and all that remained was an avenue of stumps. They have replanted trees since then but it will be a long time before they will be magnificent.

Roger

RogerP

West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire

No county (Lincolnshire) has better churches and worse houses. The poorer sort of people wash their clothes with hog's dung, and burn dried cow's dung for want of better fuel; whence comes the Lincolnshire proverb: "Where the hogs shite soap and the cows shite fire".

Curiosities of Great Britain (c.1780)

Offline Caz  
#47 Posted : 28 May 2019 07:30:38(UTC)
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Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire, East Midlands

Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons Go to Quoted Post

 

Interesting paper, Caz - thanks for that, but as you say, inconclusive. I felt the emphasis was somewhat "urban".

With regard to your comment above, my take on this would be to always favour the precautionary principle and protect the native/endemic species, not least because you can never be certain how a translocated species will behave in a new wild environment - e.g. Japanese Knotweed, Himalayan Balsam, Rhododendron - which certainly know how to thrive! I accept there might be exceptions, but as a general rule I would argue against "wild" planting of non-native species without a powerful case first being made. We have many useful and beautiful native plants, too many under threat as a result of human neglect, carelessness or ignorance. Why can't we appreciate our own botanical population, with its particular history and evolution? Probably because someone is always trying to sell us something "better".

To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw a perfume on the violet,
To smooth the ice, or add another hue
Unto the rainbow, or with taper-light
To seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish,
Is wasteful and ridiculous excess.

William Shakespeare - King John, Act IV, scene ii

Roger

 

As per my previous posts, I agree our priority is to preserve our heritage and I wouldn’t suggest randomly planting exotic species.  As Lionel pointed out, there is uncertainty as to which species are actually native and how long they have to exist before we call them native.  Also,  how many of our existing species are actually varieties of their original form?  Have they evolved, some as weakly non resistant trees and others as strong survivors?

It is very sad to see two of our great trees disappearing from our hedgerows but as most have noted, there are some survivors, so all is not lost.

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

Join the fun of the monthly CET competition. Last chance to join in the yearly comp is 2nd March. Discuss monthly temperatures and records.

Offline Lionel Hutz  
#48 Posted : 28 May 2019 08:15:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons Go to Quoted Post

 

I always get a lot of pleasure from your excellent posts, Lionel, and this one is no exception. I agree with a lot of what you say, but I'll need to explain a couple of points where I may not have made myself clear. I have no problem with an exotic species of tree in a park, garden, farm or even in a forestry plantation, as long as the phytosanitary precautions are right and folks have done an appropriate risk assessment. And you are right to say that trees are not often pests in themselves, though they can be harmful or inappropriate in other ways.

A tree is not an isolated organism, it is part of a wide ecosystem with relationships to associated species, and in this it reflects its own history across geological time. It tells a story of "place", and the conditions its forebears survived without the help of humans. It is the end point of an evolutionary saga - until things move on to the next chapter. It does not act alone.

So the idea of "a tree" encompasses that story, and the parallel stories of all the organisms with which it interacts and the climate in which it has evolved and is evolving; its mycorrhizal associations and its networking in the "Wood Wide Web"; its diseases, pathogens and parasites, obligative and facultative, to which it has adapted; its pollinators [perhaps] and their place in the ecosystem; its grazers and browsers, large or small; the creatures that may feed on or distribute its seeds; the soil in which it grows and its microorganisms, some of which which will decay and recycle it when it dies. Each species will have a particular "package" of relationships built up by the conditions that have shaped it, and this will be what makes it "native", because they were indeed shaped by the land in which it developed.

A guiding ethical principle in heritage conservation is "never do anything you can't undo if you prove to be wrong". The same applies in conservation in the natural world - if you are going to let the genie out of the bottle you had better be sure you know what you are doing.

The hallmark of ancient woodland is its diversity and the marvelous range of associated species that you would expect to find there. As I pointed out above, how long do you give an introduced tree to start to show these special relationships? 10 years? 100 years? Longer?

Here's the Woodland Trust's take on Ancient Woodland: Ancient woods have been around for many centuries – long enough to develop as ecosystems that are rich, complex, and irreplaceable.

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/visiting-woods/trees-woods-and-wildlife/woodland-habitats/ancient-woodland/

 

So by all means appreciate and love all tree species, but the ones you really need to focus on are those which made their place their home without human help. Maybe they need that help now because of what we are doing to our environment?

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

You're quite right, of course. An truly ancient British woodland is as special a habitat as any in the world. And as you suggest, there is far more to such a habitat than what is plainly visible. It is an entire ecosystem with an intricate network of relationships between the different components. So if you add a non-native species to the mix, who knows how this will affect the entity as a whole, like adding an electric guitar to a symphony orchestra. It's nice to have exotic foreign species to admire but it's easy to forget that there are fine native species in difficulty too that need protection. While trees generally don't get out of control as some smaller species such as japanese knotwood, they still need to be treated with a little caution. This is a species that I wouldn't like to see widely planted anywhere near me https://www.futurity.org/ailanthus-invasive-species-1502702/

I am reluctant to say anything contrary to such an eloquent post. However, I do wonder to what extent the horse has already bolted. Our entire environment is so compromised and influenced by humanity that you wonder what's left that's truly natural. In terms of woodland, we are particularly poor in Ireland as regards ancient woodland. The few remaining remnants are poorly managed https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/rhododendron-an-ecological-disaster-in-killarney-national-park-1.3894358 You do things a bit better in the UK but even there, there is little left that is truly wild. Admittedly, that's all the more reason to protect what's left. 

Of course, the proliferation of commercial forestry is a whole other issue. Again, this is a source of much debate in parts of Ireland https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/forestry/leitrim-and-the-gigantic-forest-debate-37545279.html Commercial forestry often replaces other important semi natural ecosystems.

Another issue is that some say that care needs to be taken even when planting native species. If I plants oaks of, say, Polish progeny, are these trees natives? All the more reason to have rules in place about plant importation. I received this book https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1474606792/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i5 as a present last Christmas. The writer planted a number of oaks from different parts of Ireland on his farm in the Irish midlands. What was interesting was that some did badly as they weren't suited to his location coming in some cases from the far South-West and North-East. Seeds from plants that have evolved locally will usually do better that imported stock, sometimes even when "imported" from not too far away.

   

Lionel Hutz

Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland

68m ASL

Offline Roger Parsons  
#49 Posted : 28 May 2019 10:49:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Caz Go to Quoted Post

As per my previous posts, I agree our priority is to preserve our heritage and I wouldn’t suggest randomly planting exotic species.  As Lionel pointed out, there is uncertainty as to which species are actually native and how long they have to exist before we call them native.  Also,  how many of our existing species are actually varieties of their original form?  Have they evolved, some as weakly non resistant trees and others as strong survivors?

It is very sad to see two of our great trees disappearing from our hedgerows but as most have noted, there are some survivors, so all is not lost.

Hi Caz - thanks again for your thoughts.

I found this news piece both sad and troubling; and relevant to the point you have been making.

Millions 'lack access' to parks and green spaces

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48398033

Roger

RogerP

West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire

No county (Lincolnshire) has better churches and worse houses. The poorer sort of people wash their clothes with hog's dung, and burn dried cow's dung for want of better fuel; whence comes the Lincolnshire proverb: "Where the hogs shite soap and the cows shite fire".

Curiosities of Great Britain (c.1780)

Offline NMA  
#50 Posted : 28 May 2019 11:16:04(UTC)
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Some really interesting thoughts on this thread. Thank you. A brief reply as only one computer is usable this half term. 

Tilia cordata one of my favourite trees along with Black poplar. P. nigra. 

Tree seed provenance a minefield as Roger and others acknowledge. A bit like wild brown trout. https://www.wildtrout.org/

You are not now allowed to stock fertile (from a farm) brown trout in a stream or river because of the genetic implications. Only triploids.

https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2014/12/29/protecting-wild-brown-trout/

A digression from trees I know but the biological and ecological interconnections of our environment are all important IMO.

Nick

 

Edited by user 28 May 2019 11:17:28(UTC)  | Reason: clarification from a farm

Offline Roger Parsons  
#51 Posted : 28 May 2019 12:00:53(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: NMA Go to Quoted Post

Some really interesting thoughts on this thread. Thank you. A brief reply as only one computer is usable this half term. 

Tilia cordata one of my favourite trees along with Black poplar. P. nigra. 

Tree seed provenance a minefield as Roger and others acknowledge. A bit like wild brown trout. https://www.wildtrout.org/

You are not now allowed to stock fertile (from a farm) brown trout in a stream or river because of the genetic implications. Only triploids.

https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2014/12/29/protecting-wild-brown-trout/

A digression from trees I know but the biological and ecological interconnections of our environment are all important IMO.

Nick

Thanks for that, Nick. I can see their point, and the issues are somewhat different to the tree saga. My worst horror stories tend to be on the zoological/agricultural side rather than trees, and I wonder if I dare tell any here! I shall think about that.

I have just finished looking at some interesting community woodland projects and most have sourced planting material from organisations like the Woodland Trust. There was an interesting setup called "Flora Locale", but they seem to have gone quiet. They specialised in directing people to sources of local plants and seeds. Their Website is posting a holding message: see

https://www.floralocale.org/

 

Other interesting-looking websites are:

Using Local Stock for Planting Native Trees [Forestry Commission] https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/documents/963/fcpn8.pdf

Also

 Plant Trees [Woodland Trust]

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/plant-trees/

 Maelor Forest Nurseries Ltd

http://www.maelor.co.uk/content/9/seed-source

For a more serious academic read, try:

Supplying trees in an era of environmental uncertainty: Identifying challenges faced by the forest nursery sector in Great Britain

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5045158/

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by user 28 May 2019 12:05:49(UTC)  | Reason: fixed link

RogerP

West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire

No county (Lincolnshire) has better churches and worse houses. The poorer sort of people wash their clothes with hog's dung, and burn dried cow's dung for want of better fuel; whence comes the Lincolnshire proverb: "Where the hogs shite soap and the cows shite fire".

Curiosities of Great Britain (c.1780)

Offline Caz  
#52 Posted : 28 May 2019 12:07:06(UTC)
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Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire, East Midlands

Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons Go to Quoted Post

 

Hi Caz - thanks again for your thoughts.

I found this news piece both sad and troubling; and relevant to the point you have been making.

Millions 'lack access' to parks and green spaces

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48398033

Roger

The emphasis of this year’s Chelsea Flower Show was on trees and green spaces. As always there were some spectacular displays but most were non native species, chosen for their amenity suitability.  I think we have to remember that our native trees are probably not best suited for urban situations.  So while we need to preserve what we can of our natural environment, our built environment requires a different school of thought.  

I don’t think the two can co-exist without some cost.  I’ve suggested there could be cross pollination between the architectural varieties and the natural ones, which could cause weakness in some.  We either build green spaces to gain enjoyment and well being for everyone and accept there may be losses, or we don’t build them in order to protect our native trees.

I live on the edge of Sherwood Forest and have access to some beautiful countryside, so I’m lucky and happy, but as that article shows, not everyone is!  

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

Join the fun of the monthly CET competition. Last chance to join in the yearly comp is 2nd March. Discuss monthly temperatures and records.

Offline Northern Sky  
#53 Posted : 28 May 2019 18:45:28(UTC)
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Joined: 16/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,869
Location: Leeds W Yorks

Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons Go to Quoted Post

 

Hi Caz - thanks again for your thoughts.

I found this news piece both sad and troubling; and relevant to the point you have been making.

Millions 'lack access' to parks and green spaces

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48398033

Roger

Sad indeed Roger. I'm very lucky in that I have a large semi natural ancient woodland literally two minutes walk from my house. In fact I've just been for a walk there and the woods were absolutely filled with birdsong. 

it's also only a 10 minute drive over the Chevin to Otley where my Mum lives. It's a drive I do often and the view of the Washburn Valley and lower Wharfedale always makes me feel happy. 

I don't think the benefits of access to green spaces can be overstated.

Offline Caz  
#54 Posted : 28 May 2019 19:25:30(UTC)
Caz

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Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire, East Midlands

Originally Posted by: Northern Sky Go to Quoted Post

 

Sad indeed Roger. I'm very lucky in that I have a large semi natural ancient woodland literally two minutes walk from my house. In fact I've just been for a walk there and the woods were absolutely filled with birdsong. 

it's also only a 10 minute drive over the Chevin to Otley where my Mum lives. It's a drive I do often and the view of the Washburn Valley and lower Wharfedale always makes me feel happy. 

I don't think the benefits of access to green spaces can be overstated.

   

It just occurred to me that those of us posting have witnessed diseased trees and are commenting on how sad it is to see them go.  When actually, there are many more people who won’t even know they’ve gone because they hardly ever see a tree at all!   I feel a bit selfish now!  

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

Join the fun of the monthly CET competition. Last chance to join in the yearly comp is 2nd March. Discuss monthly temperatures and records.

Offline Roger Parsons  
#55 Posted : 28 May 2019 21:50:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Caz Go to Quoted Post

   

It just occurred to me that those of us posting have witnessed diseased trees and are commenting on how sad it is to see them go.  When actually, there are many more people who won’t even know they’ve gone because they hardly ever see a tree at all!   I feel a bit selfish now!  

It is sad to lose old friends that have grown for so many years, Caz. If ever life brings you to Lincolnshire here's a tree you ought to meet!

http://www.ancienttreeforum.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/The-Bowthorpe-Oak-for-July-2017.pdf

 

Roger

Edited by user 28 May 2019 22:05:25(UTC)  | Reason: fixed link

RogerP

West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire

No county (Lincolnshire) has better churches and worse houses. The poorer sort of people wash their clothes with hog's dung, and burn dried cow's dung for want of better fuel; whence comes the Lincolnshire proverb: "Where the hogs shite soap and the cows shite fire".

Curiosities of Great Britain (c.1780)

Offline Caz  
#56 Posted : 29 May 2019 06:49:30(UTC)
Caz

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Posts: 18,285
Woman
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire, East Midlands

Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons Go to Quoted Post

 

It is sad to lose old friends that have grown for so many years, Caz. If ever life brings you to Lincolnshire here's a tree you ought to meet!

http://www.ancienttreeforum.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/The-Bowthorpe-Oak-for-July-2017.pdf

 

Roger

We quite often venture into Lincolnshire Roger, but I’ve never seen the Bowthorpe Oak.  

We have some ancient and famous Oaks as very close neighbours with the Major Oak within walking distance.  When I was a child we used to play inside its cavity, although it’s now fenced off and pinned up.  We also have the much less known Parliament Oak, which is thought to be 1200 years old.

https://www.ehbp.com/the-definitive-list-of-british-oak-trees-their-history/

I do wonder how long these beasts actually live and what would become of them if they were not supported by scaffolding!  I suspect bits would drop off and other branches would sprout.  It’s thought that’s what happened to the Parliament Oak as its girth doesn’t match its age.  I’ve read that Oaks shrink with age (I know the feeling ) but the Parliament Oak still looks quite young compared to some of our other ancient oaks and shrinking wouldn’t account for its loss of girth, yet it’s thought to be one of the oldest.

http://robin-hood-was-here.blogspot.com/2012/01/parliament-oak-pilgrim-oak-sherwood.html?m=1

 

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

Join the fun of the monthly CET competition. Last chance to join in the yearly comp is 2nd March. Discuss monthly temperatures and records.

Offline bledur  
#57 Posted : 29 May 2019 14:33:34(UTC)
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Quite a few Ash round here showing signs of die back  . Going to take out some this summer which are looking particularly bad.

 One of the first jobs i did was helping fell and cut up Elms in the 70,s. Beautiful trees they were in full Summer foliage.  Hedgerow Elms do keep trying to grow but get so far and then die 

Offline Lionel Hutz  
#58 Posted : 29 May 2019 14:58:57(UTC)
Lionel Hutz

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Ireland

Originally Posted by: bledur Go to Quoted Post

Quite a few Ash round here showing signs of die back  . Going to take out some this summer which are looking particularly bad.

 One of the first jobs i did was helping fell and cut up Elms in the 70,s. Beautiful trees they were in full Summer foliage.  Hedgerow Elms do keep trying to grow but get so far and then die 

I'm amazed at how many of you are seeing ash dieback on your side of the Irish Sea. It has certainly reached Ireland but it's not at all visible here yet. I can't seem to find anything saying it but I'm pretty certain that I read that it seems to spread more easily in warmer and especially dryer conditions. Perhaps that will slow down its advance here. I wonder whether the effects are ash dieback are as visible in Scotland as in England or whether the Scottish situation is more like Ireland?

As for the elm, all of our mature elms died in the late 80's(bar one locally which survived until 10/15 years ago). We now have a decent few which have reached 20 and 30 feet high. The danger height for dutch elm disease is when the trees reach around 10 to 15 feet. That's the cruising height for flying of the scolytus scolytus beetle which causes the disease so that's why they get so far before the die. Apparently, the beetle doesn't really notice elms below its flight path. I'm hoping against hope that I've got some sort of resistant strain of elm but I'm resigned to the fact that they're most probably going to die before long. Still, elm makes good firewood at least.

Edited by user 29 May 2019 15:21:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Lionel Hutz

Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland

68m ASL

Offline Caz  
#59 Posted : 29 May 2019 15:53:37(UTC)
Caz

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 28/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 18,285
Woman
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire, East Midlands

Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz Go to Quoted Post

I'm amazed at how many of you are seeing ash dieback on your side of the Irish Sea. It has certainly reached Ireland but it's not at all visible here yet. I can't seem to find anything saying it but I'm pretty certain that I read that it seems to spread more easily in warmer and especially dryer conditions. Perhaps that will slow down its advance here. I wonder whether the effects are ash dieback are as visible in Scotland as in England or whether the Scottish situation is more like Ireland?

As for the elm, all of our mature elms died in the late 80's(bar one locally which survived until 10/15 years ago). We now have a decent few which have reached 20 and 30 feet high. The danger height for dutch elm disease is when the trees reach around 10 to 15 feet. That's the cruising height for flying of the scolytus scolytus beetle which causes the disease so that's why they get so far before the die. Apparently, the beetle doesn't really notice elms below its flight path. I'm hoping against hope that I've got some sort of resistant strain of elm but I'm resigned to the fact that they're most probably going to die before long. Still, elm makes good firewood at least.

That’s really interesting Lionel!  You certainly know your stuff and I do hope your trees do well.  

Just for the record though, Ash is the best wood for burning!  

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.

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Offline Lionel Hutz  
#60 Posted : 29 May 2019 16:23:57(UTC)
Lionel Hutz

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,507
Man
Ireland

Originally Posted by: Caz Go to Quoted Post

That’s really interesting Lionel!  You certainly know your stuff and I do hope your trees do well.  

Just for the record though, Ash is the best wood for burning!  

Thanks - I do love my trees! The ones that I have planted are all growing well and it's lovely to see them now turning into young woodland at this stage - I started planting them nearly twenty years ago with my now deceased father. Hopefully, there will still be some space left for my two small boys to keep up the tradition when they're a little older! As well as planting, I also cut timber - we've lost quite a few trees in storms over the past few years so I've been busy with my chainsaw! 

Ash is good for burning. Ash is low moisture content so it will burn  fresh after cutting. However, I would rate the likes of oak and hawthorn as being better. However, they need at least a year of seasoning before they're fit to burn. Here's a nice guide to different timbers for firewood https://www.thestoveyard.com/resource-centre-home/what-wood-to-burn  

Lionel Hutz

Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland

68m ASL

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