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Online warrenb  
#721 Posted : 26 July 2019 11:02:37(UTC)
warrenb

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Man
Location: Tonbridge, Kent

East coast of Kent still around 27-28c at the moment
Online Heavy Weather 2013  
#722 Posted : 26 July 2019 11:30:06(UTC)
Heavy Weather 2013

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Posts: 2,502
Location: Muswell Hill, North London

https://twitter.com/metoffice/status/1154709410117234693


The MetOffice actively talking about other nation records - yet here we are 24hrs no 100% sure if our record is nailed.


Someone has asked them directly


https://twitter.com/metoffice/status/1154709410117234693


If they dont respond to that Id say its being looked at and we could be on for a new record.


 

Edited by user 26 July 2019 11:32:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Mark
Stratford, London
Offline Joe Bloggs  
#723 Posted : 26 July 2019 11:32:39(UTC)
Joe Bloggs

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 04/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 24,480
Location: Manchester

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 Go to Quoted Post


 


Quite. This is all quite appalling really. Stations that are broken, stations which have been removed and poor coverage in certain areas. I dont have Twitter perhaps someone could direct them to update their Map.



Absolutely.


We should have a network of official weather stations, with live data, and historical extremes for each site.


We also seem far too keen to change and disregard sites quite readily (take Woodford/Rostherne as an example up here). Manchester Airport is on XCWeather but it isn't an official Met station anymore?


It proved remarkably difficult to get reliable data from yesterday.


All very confusing IMO.

Edited by user 26 July 2019 11:33:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


Withington, South Manchester, 38m ASL

Offline james  
#724 Posted : 26 July 2019 11:47:15(UTC)
james

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 15/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Cambridge 19masl

I've just been down there, here's a pic taken this morning:


http://web.yurgn31.50mail.com/botanic.jpeg


No big bushes or poly-tunnels this month, but plenty of bare soil.

Edited by user 26 July 2019 11:51:55(UTC)  | Reason: image gets squashed

Offline Chunky Pea  
#725 Posted : 26 July 2019 11:50:03(UTC)
Chunky Pea

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Posts: 14,232
Man
Ireland
Location: East Galway, Ireland 35 m asl

Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs Go to Quoted Post


We should have a network of official weather stations, with live data, and historical extremes for each site.



One thing I will give our own Met Office (Met Eireann) here in Ireland is that they provide hourly and daily data from all of the official synoptic stations, and daily, hourly and even minute data from all of the climatological stations at the end each month. In contrast, because I like to keep an eye on Northern Ireland data to compare and contrast with that of the Rep, the UK Met only gives the daily high, low and maximum rainfall from which ever station recorded them at the end of each day. Very strange behavior and a behavior that seems unique amongst all of the State run Met Agencies not only across Europe, but the States as well. 

"There are nights when the wolves fall silent and only the moon howls"
--George Carlin.
Online RobN  
#726 Posted : 26 July 2019 11:53:36(UTC)
RobN

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Location: South Cambridgeshire

Can anyone explain why the Monks Wood Met Office station stopped reporting 3 days ago?


That, along with Bedford which mysteriously stopped reporting yesterday, must have been in contention?

Rob
Sometimes a few miles north of Cambridge on a hill in the flatlands of East Anglia 15m ASL
Other times in south east Gloucestershire near the River Thames 75m ASL.
Online RobN  
#727 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:01:23(UTC)
RobN

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
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United Kingdom
Location: South Cambridgeshire

Originally Posted by: james Go to Quoted Post


I've just been down there, here's a pic taken this morning:


http://web.yurgn31.50mail.com/botanic.jpeg


No big bushes or poly-tunnels this month, but plenty of bare soil.



Thanks James


Perhaps you should tweet that picture to the MetOffice as a reminder...

Rob
Sometimes a few miles north of Cambridge on a hill in the flatlands of East Anglia 15m ASL
Other times in south east Gloucestershire near the River Thames 75m ASL.
Online Brian Gaze  
#728 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:23:50(UTC)
Brian Gaze

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Posts: 48,561

Originally Posted by: james Go to Quoted Post


I've just been down there, here's a pic taken this morning:


http://web.yurgn31.50mail.com/botanic.jpeg


No big bushes or poly-tunnels this month, but plenty of bare soil.



In this day and age we should not be relying on a set-up like that. It is beyond a joke. I really can't see that counting.

Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Online Brian Gaze  
#729 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:26:34(UTC)
Brian Gaze

Rank: Administration

Joined: 04/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 48,561

Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs Go to Quoted Post


 


Absolutely.


We should have a network of official weather stations, with live data, and historical extremes for each site.


We also seem far too keen to change and disregard sites quite readily (take Woodford/Rostherne as an example up here). Manchester Airport is on XCWeather but it isn't an official Met station anymore?


It proved remarkably difficult to get reliable data from yesterday.


All very confusing IMO.



Yes it has been a complete shambles. If a new record is declared it will be questioned relentlessly and some people will not accept it. Credibility is shot to shreds. Regardless of one's views on climate change it is obvious that temperature data should now be considered "business critical" and that implies the system must have redundancy built in and be resilient.

Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Online Heavy Weather 2013  
#730 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:26:51(UTC)
Heavy Weather 2013

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 16/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,502
Location: Muswell Hill, North London

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze Go to Quoted Post


 


In this day and age we should not be relying on a set-up like that. It is beyond a joke. I really can't see that counting.



Its apparently got a four start rating and was awarded a silver rosette last year. Still no mention from the MetOffice. This whole charade is a total embarrassment. I said it earlier, they need to stop spending money on their website and start to invest in the reporting network. 

Mark
Stratford, London
Offline Rob K  
#731 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:37:47(UTC)
Rob K

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Location: Northeast Hampshire

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze Go to Quoted Post


 


In this day and age we should not be relying on a set-up like that. It is beyond a joke. I really can't see that counting.



It looks no worse than Brogdale, and they counted that. Personally I think the 2003 Brogdale reading should be disregarded - it's clearly way out of line with neighbouring sites. If I had my way, the max for 2003 would be 38.1 at Gravesend (although even Gravesend was far from ideal) and the max for 2019 would be 38.1 at Cambridge NIAB.


 


Re the comments above about the new record being questioned, nobody seemed to quibble about the Brogdale reading even though that seems far more dodgy. (Although I noticed that The Times on Tuesday attributed the 38.5C record to Kew Gardens on the front page!)


But I agree. Spend money on a decent, extensive and reliable network of weather stations, not on redesigning the website and preaching on Twitter.

Edited by user 26 July 2019 12:42:09(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

They say it's always darkest before the dawn. But sometimes it's darkest just before the tornado flattens your house.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl.
Online Gavin D  
#732 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:45:44(UTC)
Gavin D

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Offline four  
#733 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:48:25(UTC)
four

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Posts: 19,773
Location: N.Y.Moors

Originally Posted by: james Go to Quoted Post


I've just been down there, here's a pic taken this morning:


http://web.yurgn31.50mail.com/botanic.jpeg


No big bushes or poly-tunnels this month, but plenty of bare soil.



It's completely surrounded by buildings and trees, far too sheltered - like a sun trap, as well as the bare soil practically under it, which will heat up like concrete.

Online Heavy Weather 2013  
#734 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:50:11(UTC)
Heavy Weather 2013

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 16/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,502
Location: Muswell Hill, North London

Originally Posted by: Gavin D Go to Quoted Post




Thanks for getting the update @Brain. Its a shame we have to wait this long - imagine if we had known for sure yesterday we would have been able to move on or celebrate in style.
Although he didn't answer part of your question.

SHOW TWEETS

Edited by user 26 July 2019 12:52:39(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Mark
Stratford, London
Online Heavy Weather 2013  
#735 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:58:32(UTC)
Heavy Weather 2013

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 16/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,502
Location: Muswell Hill, North London

Whats also fascinating about that Cambridge site is it is listed as Active


Therefore, if the site is not meeting the standard required how long do they go back and delete stations record (Days or weeks). 


 

Mark
Stratford, London
Offline Roger Parsons  
#736 Posted : 26 July 2019 12:58:48(UTC)
Roger Parsons

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Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
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Location: Lincolnshire

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze Go to Quoted Post


Yes it has been a complete shambles. If a new record is declared it will be questioned relentlessly and some people will not accept it. Credibility is shot to shreds. Regardless of one's views on climate change it is obvious that temperature data should now be considered "business critical" and that implies the system must have redundancy built in and be resilient.



Brian - it will not be any consolation - but the position with regard to UK biological recording is in a similar state - possibly worse. There is no overarching body to collate and present public data and the issues of ownership and validation are fraught with difficulties. If I give you a map of the distribution of a particular species, what you are really getting is the historic distribution of reporting naturalists! Some reporters and recorders are professional, but there is a fine tradition in natural history of the expert amateur playing an invaluable part in such research. These can be a tad [putting it kindly] "closely focused" and working to their own time limitations. The unkind phrase is "like herding cats"! Given that biological data has a commercial value, for example in the planning process as carried out by environmental consultants, you will appreciate the access to reliable current data can be a hornets' nest!


I caught and reported a Large Marsh Horsefly last week. A big beast. The county "Fly recorder" validated it from photographs and I referred to a map of its distribution, which does not include any Lincolnshire record. I was told recently these maps are sometimes several years out of date! How can you say "..seems to be extending its range" when you may be several years behind the times?


https://www.naturespot.org.uk/species/large-marsh-horsefly


Roger

RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
No county (Lincolnshire) has better churches and worse houses. The poorer sort of people wash their clothes with hog's dung, and burn dried cow's dung for want of better fuel; whence comes the Lincolnshire proverb: "Where the hogs shite soap and the cows shite fire".
Curiosities of Great Britain (c.1780)
Offline Retron  
#737 Posted : 26 July 2019 13:04:02(UTC)
Retron

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Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 24,428
Location: Leysdown-on-Sea

Originally Posted by: Rob K Go to Quoted Post


It looks no worse than Brogdale, and they counted that. Personally I think the 2003 Brogdale reading should be disregarded - it's clearly way out of line with neighbouring sites. If I had my way, the max for 2003 would be 38.1 at Gravesend and the max for 2019 would be 38.1 at Cambridge NIAB.



As you weren't in the area on that day, I'm not sure how you can say it was out of line? Given the right setup, namely a wind from a southerly quarter, Swale absolutely roasts... it's because of the mini-Foehn effect from the Downs. Manston is much higher up, on top of a plateau, while East Malling is the other side of the Downs.


There are no other official sites locally which are in the lee of a long chain of hills. It's that which, given the right wind direction and upper air conditions, meant the record happened. It was a very similar day yesterday: same hot upper air, same wind direction and so on. And cloudless, of course, which is why I'm not at all surprised to hear a potential 38.4C was recorded there.


As I've said again and again in defense of Brogdale, if it was dodgy the Met Office simply wouldn't list it as holding the record. Believe me, they would have audited the hell out of the site before awarding it that honour.


And for reference, here's Brogdale.


http://oi65.tinypic.com/wvv3g2.jpg


It complies with the WMO rules regarding positioning of the screen -  see section 1-1: https://library.wmo.int/pmb_ged/wmo_8_en-2012.pdf


(There is a section about being close to trees, but no exact distances are specified. Clearly the Met Office don't see it as a problem.)


The Botany station, in that photo, doesn't comply - there isn't 1.5m of grass on all sides of that screen.


That said, if the Met Office decide that it holds the record I won't grumble and moan about it!

Edited by user 26 July 2019 13:16:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline james  
#738 Posted : 26 July 2019 13:04:28(UTC)
james

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 15/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Cambridge 19masl

I note both Cambridge NIAB and Cambridge Botanic have moved location since 2003. Some careful analysis would be needed before concluding that yesterday was hotter in Cambridge than it was on 10 August 2003.
Offline picturesareme  
#739 Posted : 26 July 2019 13:05:25(UTC)
picturesareme

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Posts: 4,851
Location: pompey

Why all this slaying of the Met office because of a recording at a WOW site? You do realise that these WOW sites are not official but rather a network of amateur sites.
Online warrenb  
#740 Posted : 26 July 2019 13:09:52(UTC)
warrenb

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Location: Tonbridge, Kent

Indeed, here is the link to mine.
I believe the difference is the Meto Logo on the page meaning it is an official meto observation station.

http://wow.metoffice.gov...ther/view?siteID=4557194
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