Depends which competiton you are talking about. If you mean the CL then no, it's not pointless, so qualifying for that should be regarded as a minimum objective. The EL on the other hand is utter tosh and absolutely meaningless.

I don't accept that the PL is a closed shop. Chances are it will be more competitive this year than it has been for a number of years. We shall see.

It's not Sky I have the major beef with - it's the owners of PL clubs who sell out to foreigners without a care for the consequences - two prime examples being Liverpool and Manure. I care not a jot for those two clubs, but further down the road such a scenario could visit my club.

I agree about the media too. And SKY are definitely central to that.

Apologies for a football fan of 45 years daring to venture an opinion. I forgot. The PL is a closed shop. Can't criticise it. It's like a bloody cult!

I have an interest in the Premier LEAGUE (hasn't been the Premiership for at least two years). I care about English football. At all levels. A shame that others don't seem to know, or care, about the leagues that hold up the rest of the structure. Sums up the utterly selfish nature of many of the fans.

Remind me who gave all the money to the owners of the PL clubs in the first place. Even at £60 a ticket it isn't the fans...

It's a thing called 'market forces'. You know, all those people in Thailand, Mongolia and other places you so sneeringly referred to earlier on.

Yes.... but your posts in this thread are full of hatred and negativity toward the premeirship. As a fan of English football why dont you look at positive aspects or are you someone who walks around with a grey cloud over thier head 24/7..?

True enough. Nothing changes, it seems. Tippy tappy stuff simply being bullied by Liverpool's blocks of four. You could rarely accuse Liverpool of being consistently good to watch, but they're doing their job today so far.

Agreed  and Liverpool nick a goal courtesy of Almunia

I have given my reasons for why I dislike what the Premier League has become. I LOVE football. I can't see many positives for the game as a whole. As theatre it has its moments, but there has to be a wider view of what it offers for the game from the bottom to the top.

Tell me how the Premier League has been good for the national team?

I'm one of those people that says it's crap if it's crap and enthuses if it's good. Football is about opinions, voluble ones at that. That's why TWO has never done football passion very well. It's too polite, and doesn't contain enough people who spend their hard earned on it. They believe it comes out of an LCD screen and sees nothing wrong with thousands of kids walking around towns in the colours of teams they'll never go and see live while their home team struggles to make ends meet.

Certainly nothing I've seen so far today worries me. I think Spurs and even the Citeh put out yesterday can beat these two.

Quite, but if I didn't have to worry about the CofC here, I'd be far less polite, believe me. That's precisely why going on the Sunderland board is such a stitch. You can basic say what you like there.

Well if you're judging the effectiveness of the market then the ultimate test is whether the business plan works at the top end. The England team IS the top end. This market is distorted by the major players, and it's detrimental to the game in this country as a whole.

And, if you think about it, what the hell is someone from Japan even thinking of wearing an English league shirt of any type? It's ludicrous!

You have conveniently missed the point entirely. That point being that you see success as achieving a Champions League spot. You know that you have no chance whatsoever of winning the league. Your goal for this season is to finish in the top 4.

Can you elaborate a bit? Chances are? Based on what, exactly? I haven't seen or heard a single pundit, professional or amateur, who has tipped anyone apart from Man Utd or Chelsea to win the title as usual. What has taken place in the transfer market to make you suggest the chances are it will be more competitive? If you're talking about the also ran section (outside the big 2) then you may be right, but you would have missed my point again. If you mean Man City's millions? I don't think they will challenge the big two this season. Maybe I'll be wrong come May, but that's how I see it at present. I've no doubt they will be there in a year or two because of the money.

I was listening to 5 Live earlier and they were talking about Man City's chances this year. Both pundits wrote them off as far as the top two are concerned, but I heard one particularly stupid comment. The ex player, who's name escapes me, said that he accepts money can buy you the title.... Excuse me??? Money 'can' buy you the title? ONLY money can buy you the Premier League title. ONLY money. I'll bet you any figure you care to mention that someone like a Sunderland or a Wigan or a Fulham cannot and will never win the league in their current structure because thet are not good enough. Why are they not good enough? Because they don't have the money to make them good enough.

Move outside of the Premiership closed shop for a second and show me that scenario in the lower leagues. Take the Championship for a minute. There are no mega bucks clubs in there. Yes, you have your clubs that are deemed as bigger than the rest. You're Leeds, Forest, Derby, but they don't hold the monopoly on that league. Far from it, and why? Because virtually all the clubs in that league are on a very similar financial footing. Portsmouth, Dull and Palace aside, who are at the other end of the scale in that they are struggling just to survive. Imagine if you can, just for s second, why supporters of clubs from the lower leagues generally view the Prem with such disdain? There they are attempting to just survive, whilst the money bags Premier League continues getting richer and richer every year and the smallest of drip feeds comes down to the rest of us, and yet they still bemoan their lot on the whole

Pretty sure your views would be different if your home club was in the premier league.

I am not of the opinion that MONEY buys a premier league title. It helps yes and by a great deal but as we saw earlier Man U on the whole have spent less then many prem clubs yet still win the league more years than not. Shiteh will not wij the league no matter what they spend.. not this year and probably not the next. Main reason being the owners will not allow the team a chance.. shite results = new manager = new players and so the cyle continues. Of all the prem teams Man U have left the on field management to their manager, yes the club is riddled with debt with thanks to the Glaziers but on the field they dont intefere.

And yet they have more money than they could ever have dreamed of. That's just another one of the obscenities of the Premier League. They get so much money that they distort the leagues below, via parachute payments.

Football below the Premier League doesn't exist for most of their fans. It can't be long before someone says 'ahh but it would be different if your team was in the PL'. I really hope not because it would prove just how little some people truly understand, or love, the game and take the easy option with their supposed arguments.

For the record my team has been in the PL for more years than it hasn't, and yes I enjoyed it, but not half as much as I did, as it turns out, visiting grounds in League One, where people turn up for the love of the game, not because of the money, the media coverage etc. 

Oh dear. I suppose it was inevitable, not that I knew it when I was typing my last post.

Real top notch keeping there by an overpaid star by the way.

Another goalkeeping blunder... 1-1  5min injury time

Have they? I'd be interested to see figures of expenditure on players by Man Utd over the last decade against the likes of Fulham, Sunderland, Wigan, Blackburn and many others. I'm certain it is substantially, substantially more. The reason why Man Utd often have the edge over their money bags rivals such as Chelsea and now Man City, is the blend of having plenty of money to spend (until it all comes crashing down one day) and a manager who has been there for many years and has crafted this club from bottom to top. The others have a bad season (not finishing in the top two) sack their manager and start all over again

I would agree with this. Part of the reason Spurs, for example, have been serial underperformers over the years has been down to the frequent changes of manager and the general chaos going on behind the scenes at the club. It has nothing to do with money. Indeed, since 2006 Spurs I believe have been the second biggest net spenders in the PL. I'll check that stat.

Meanwhile, a clanger from the Spanish waiter. I'll settle for a draw today.

Taxi to the championship thread.....

LMAO!

Net expenditure... Chelsea, Shiteh, Liverpool, Villa and Spurs have all spent more than Man U  saint posted the figs on an earlier page.

Don't be bloody daft - they can't afford it

If i were to scynical it would seem many people on here actually cant wait for the premier league to implode and for teams to go bankrupt... you all must love the English game and be real footy fans !!! Quite franky the ones who seem to be so negative about this all.... are two pundits whose teams dont play in the premier league.