TheWeatheroutlook
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Yorkshire GSer Offline
#1 Posted : 27 April 2012 21:34:27(UTC)
Yorkshire GSer

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: South Kirkby, Pontefract

Simple question really, anyone care to venture an opinion?

May looks to be disappointing early on, June who knows.

http://climaterealists.com/?id=9514

Met Office Computer Says: April Drier-Than-Average

Met Office 3-month Outlook, 23 March 2012: The forecast for average UK rainfall slightly favours drier-than-average conditions for April-May-June as a whole, and also slightly favours April being the driest of the 3 months.

 

 

Edited by user 27 April 2012 21:36:41(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

West Yorks
70m asl
WeatherExpert81 Offline
#2 Posted : 27 April 2012 21:38:03(UTC)
WeatherExpert81

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,270
Man
Location: Buntingford, Hertfordshire

My god if April is the most settled of the 3 months, what will May & June bring? 2007? 

Paul Carter
Buntingford, Hertfordshire


Steam Fog Offline
#3 Posted : 27 April 2012 21:51:26(UTC)
Steam Fog

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 25/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,243
Location: Brighton

Simple answer.

Because it is very difficult to predict the weather beyond a week.

"They" made this perfectly clear by saying 

"This product provides some limited guidance on potential variance from climatology i.e. possible change from what is typical for UK weather.

It is however an emerging and cutting edge area of science and users are encouraged to consult our shorter range and climatological guidance before committing resources or taking action."

Caz Offline
#4 Posted : 27 April 2012 22:30:17(UTC)
Caz

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 28/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 9,227
Woman
Location: Market Warsop, Nottinghamshire, East Midlands

I'd think people on a weather forum would understand just how difficult it is to forecast weather, especially in the UK when there are so many variables.  We've only to look on the MO thread to see that we can only reliably forecast a few days ahead and we know ourselves just how frustrating it can be when we're waiting for snow or thunder storms that don't actually arrive because a single factor changed or didn't fall into place.  So we know that any LR forecast has to be taken with a dose of salts.

Having said that, you'd think the MO would know better by now than to even suggest what we might be in for in a months time, let alone a season, because someone always takes it as gospel!

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Grant's Puffin Cam
Super Cell Offline
#5 Posted : 27 April 2012 23:01:51(UTC)
Super Cell

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 04/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 10,516
Location: Pudsey, Leeds

Slot machines searching for answers funded by millions of our money. 

Don't take the forecasts seriously. Your money? Who cares? Not them, for sure.

WeatherExpert81 Offline
#6 Posted : 27 April 2012 23:13:21(UTC)
WeatherExpert81

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,270
Man
Location: Buntingford, Hertfordshire

Originally Posted by: Super Cell Go to Quoted Post

Slot machines searching for answers funded by millions of our money. 

Don't take the forecasts seriously. Your money? Who cares? Not them, for sure.



Very true.  

Paul Carter
Buntingford, Hertfordshire


Steam Fog Offline
#7 Posted : 28 April 2012 06:46:50(UTC)
Steam Fog

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 25/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,243
Location: Brighton

Originally Posted by: WeatherExpert81 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Super Cell Go to Quoted Post

Slot machines searching for answers funded by millions of our money. 

Don't take the forecasts seriously. Your money? Who cares? Not them, for sure.



Very true.  



Presuming your are not being serious?
schmee Online
#8 Posted : 28 April 2012 06:58:42(UTC)
schmee

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 27/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 9,929
Man
Location: GUILDFORD

I hazzard a guess that that was a forecast true to form of the last 3 or so years. I got to admit if i were to call a complete by my own admission amateur forecast i would have said dry april cool damp may hazy june . :)
Thankyou from me Chris to all twoers. I visit most days to look, lurk, post, you name it for the interest of a life long hobby 'the weather'.
Steam Fog Offline
#9 Posted : 28 April 2012 07:21:45(UTC)
Steam Fog

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 25/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,243
Location: Brighton

It's made pretty clear that it's not being produced as a mass market confident prediction of the next three months. It is tucked away under the rather obscure heading of contingencies and doesn't appear in their forecast section. It is not generally referred to by the Met Office in their day to day communication. It comes heavily caveated pointing out very clearly that reliability of the science is questionable at the range. My guess is that having made these forecasts in private in the recent past they have been required to put them up in a caveated form to respond to those who insist they make these public (which puts them in a tricky position, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't).

What is interesting is that by 27 March when they issued the contingency paper the 30 day forecast was already talking about April bring cooler than, average, unsettled and at least average rain. Then again the contingency forecast makes very clear that shorter term forecasts should be taken over the three month one. But I'd be curious to know what caused the discrepancy.

Edited by user 28 April 2012 07:36:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Retron Offline
#10 Posted : 28 April 2012 08:27:54(UTC)
Retron

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 11,063
Location: Leysdown-on-Sea

Originally Posted by: Yorkshire GSer Go to Quoted Post

Simple question really, anyone care to venture an opinion?

Met Office Computer Says: April Drier-Than-Average

Met Office 3-month Outlook, 23 March 2012: The forecast for average UK rainfall slightly favours drier-than-average conditions for April-May-June as a whole, and also slightly favours April being the driest of the 3 months.

Come on, you can do better than that, surely? Have a read up on statistics and you'll see that your question is unreasonable.

The bit you quoted is quite clear: "slightly favours" drier than average conditions and "slightly favours" April being the driest.

The computer gave an uncertain forecast and if, for example, there's a 60% chance of something happening there's still a 40% chance of it not happening. Simple, surely.

Now, if the MetO forecast used words such as "strongly favours" or "is almost certain to be" then you'd have a worthwhile gripe.

Edited by user 28 April 2012 08:34:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

CAPE-steve Offline
#11 Posted : 28 April 2012 08:28:21(UTC)
CAPE-steve

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 03/05/2006(UTC)
Posts: 15,280
Man
United Kingdom
Location: School Aycliffe, Co. Durham

The bots are coming!


lanky Offline
#12 Posted : 28 April 2012 08:36:32(UTC)
lanky

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,042
Man

Originally Posted by: Retron Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Yorkshire GSer Go to Quoted Post

Simple question really, anyone care to venture an opinion?

Met Office Computer Says: April Drier-Than-Average

Met Office 3-month Outlook, 23 March 2012: The forecast for average UK rainfall slightly favours drier-than-average conditions for April-May-June as a whole, and also slightly favours April being the driest of the 3 months.

More pertitnent is why is your reading comprehension skill so poor? And why do you not know basic statistics?

The bit you quoted is quite clear: "slightly favours" drier than average conditions and "slightly favours" April being the driest.

The computer gave an uncertain forecast and if, for example, there's a 60% chance of something happening there's still a 40% chance of it not happening. Simple, surely.

Now, if the MetO forecast used words such as "strongly favours" or "is almost certain to be" then you'd have a worthwhile gripe.

But then again, if you look at the rainfall prediction details at the bottom of the pdf link provided on the origina; post, it shows the 30+ individual model runs and out of them only 1 predicts rainfall over 120mm or 4mm/day which it looks as though we will end up with

Interestingly Philip Eden seems to have nailed it almost spot on with his effort

http://www.climate-uk.com/page4.html

Martin
Richmond, Surrey
Steam Fog Offline
#13 Posted : 28 April 2012 08:48:22(UTC)
Steam Fog

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 25/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,243
Location: Brighton

This is what the Met Office 30 day forecast looked like on 24 March (Philip Eden put his forecast out 11 days later on 04 April). It also picked up on the unsettled, cooler and less dry theme.






29/03 to 07/4 


"A fine and dry start to the period is expected,with a good deal of sunshine for many areas"


"From the beginning of April, temperatures are likely to return nearer to average across all areas, with some quite chilly nights bringing the possibility of patchy frost. It will also turn more unsettled and windier"


"In the far north, it may be cold enough for showers to turn wintry at times, with some hill snow possible."


08/04 to 22/04 


"A generally unsettled period is expected, with winds often from the northwest. Rainfall amounts for the period look to be around average across the UK, with a continuing chance of some wintry showers falling in some far northern areas, mainly on hills. Temperatures will generally be near or a little below average..."


"Despite the predominantly more unsettled theme, there will be some drier interludes, particularly in the south, with further warm sunny spells."




 

Essan Offline
#14 Posted : 28 April 2012 09:20:16(UTC)
Essan

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 14,803
Antarctica
Location: in a cave ... Evesham, Worcs

Originally Posted by: Yorkshire GSer Go to Quoted Post

Simple question really, anyone care to venture an opinion?

 

Because slightly favouring one possiblity over another does not mean that it will be right.   Even when there is a very strong signal it doesn't necessary follow that it will happen.

If you don't understand probabilty, don't read probability forecasts and you won't be disappointed.  Simples.


As an aside, ********** got it wrong as well

Andy

Weather & Earth Science News

"Getting entangled with humans clouds the thinking" - Death

Walk the Worcestershire Way - 29 June 2013 - in aid of Vasculitis UK
WMB Online
#15 Posted : 28 April 2012 09:45:44(UTC)
WMB

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 01/05/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,623
Man
Location: Workington

Originally Posted by: Yorkshire GSer Go to Quoted Post

 

Met Office Computer Says: April Drier-Than-Average

 

Well it's almost certainly going to be below average rainfall for me this month. Am I the only one?

blaggers1968 Offline
#16 Posted : 28 April 2012 10:24:02(UTC)
blaggers1968

Rank: Member

Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 14

The last 12 months have seen a plethora of catastrophic long range forecasts from various parties. The "severe" winter foreseen by two well known solar-activity based forecasters was a classic example. Everyone seems too ready to have a swipe at the Met Office when they publish longer range probability based forecasts. True, the barbecue summer debacle will run and run but the record of most other "forecasters" is similarly variable with "shades of '76" ending up as the coolest since '93. It's a tricky game, but isn't that what makes it so fascinating?

doctormog Offline
#17 Posted : 28 April 2012 10:26:51(UTC)
doctormog

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 04/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 26,444
Location: Aberdeen

Originally Posted by: WMB Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Yorkshire GSer Go to Quoted Post

 

Met Office Computer Says: April Drier-Than-Average

 

Well it's almost certainly going to be below average rainfall for me this month. Am I the only one?



I think many parts of the NW are the exceptions to the rule.
Gandalf The White Offline
#18 Posted : 28 April 2012 13:12:23(UTC)
Gandalf The White

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 12,685

Originally Posted by: Super Cell Go to Quoted Post

Slot machines searching for answers funded by millions of our money. 

Don't take the forecasts seriously. Your money? Who cares? Not them, for sure.

But on that basis we would still be holding bits of seaweed up in the air or looking to see if the cows were laying down in the field.

How do you decide when a line of research is worthwhile or worthless?

Location: Watford, Hertfordshire

65m ASL
51.68N, 0.38W

Matty H Online
#19 Posted : 28 April 2012 13:16:49(UTC)
Matty H

Rank: Administration

Joined: 04/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 28,517
Man
Location: Lost

Its obvious isn't it? I've said it so many times - long range forecasting beyond a week or two is impossible. We don't have the ability yet, possibly never will. Always amuses me how people get excited by snowy winter forecasts in October.
Yate, Nr Bristol.
TWO Community Administrator

Contact us - twomoderationteam@gmail.com


Essan Offline
#20 Posted : 28 April 2012 13:22:07(UTC)
Essan

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 14,803
Antarctica
Location: in a cave ... Evesham, Worcs

Originally Posted by: Matty H Go to Quoted Post
Always amuses me how people get excited by snowy winter forecasts in October.

And they got that one wrong as well, didn't they

Andy

Weather & Earth Science News

"Getting entangled with humans clouds the thinking" - Death

Walk the Worcestershire Way - 29 June 2013 - in aid of Vasculitis UK
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.